中国新型空气污染处理方式---除霾塔 在西安试运行(reddit评论） [美国媒体]

在西安市长安区同辉路西侧，矗立着一座高60米、直径10米的烟囱状建筑，但它不是烟囱，而是“除霾塔”，该塔源源不断地吐出巨量的干净空气。4月17日，研究人员发布了该“除霾塔”的试验效果：10平方公里范围内，PM2.5浓度平均可以减少11%～19%。
“试验结果比较理想。”曹军骥说，如果按一个塔影响10平方公里的面积来算，一万多平方公里的西安需要1000座空气净化塔。
[–]gogoshaminoranger 95    
To add my (limited) two cents - I lived in China years ago, and things were pretty disgusting. You never saw blue skies, litter was everywhere, and people just did not care.
I moved back there recently, and there's been a big change. People are more environmentally conscious, in part due to the government incentivizing it. Plastic bags at stores now cost money, energy efficient appliances get tax incentives, and the police are cracking down on polluters.
They've got a long way to go. Old habits die hard, and the people that threw a bottle over their shoulder when they were done with it are not going to suddenly change for no reason. The younger folks are actually very inspiring, and I hope it's not too late for them to make a difference.

说说我的几点（浅薄的）看法-数年前我在中国生活，那时的中国真的蛮恶心的。天空总是灰蒙蒙一片，垃圾遍地都是，人们对此也毫不在乎。
最近我又回到了中国，发现变化真的很大。可能是因为政府的宣传号召，人民变得更加有了环保意识。塑料垃圾袋现在也要钱买了，耗能绿色的家电也有了税率补贴，警察对排污乱倒也变得打击严厉。
中国还有很长的路要走，老毛病是很难改，想要一个随手乱丢垃圾的人一夜之间突然改过是不现实的。不过随着新一代的年轻人越来越有觉悟，我希望中国的改变并不算太迟。

[–]gannebraemorr 16    
Thanks for adding this. I was wondering what is being done to fight pollution on the front end.

谢谢你的看法。我想知道中国在打击污染的前沿上做出了怎样的行动。

[–]One_Laowai 7   * 
As an expat working and living in China, things have improved dramatically since 015. Electric cars are everywhere. In the tier  city I live, the government has shut down non-compliant factories like no tomorrow, there were at least 30 factories in a small industrial area I know of that got shut down since 016. I think the government also banned waste import from foreign countries last year, which probably also helped (bad news for my home country Canada though, I heard hundreds of containers of waste got stuck in Vancouver port because of the ban)

作为一个工作并生活在中国的中国通，事情在15年左右开始发生了很大的变化。到处都是电动汽车。在我所住的城市，政府关闭了那些违规排污的企业，就我所知自16年以来被关停的企业起码就有三十多家。我想中国政府上月颁布的洋垃圾禁令也人们印像颇深（虽然对于我的祖国加拿大来说是个坏消息，我听说上百辆垃圾车因为禁令的关系被堵在温哥华港口不得动弹）

[–]4DDDDDDDDDDDD 4    
Hello, fellow Canadian! My home country is China, so I guess we just swapped spots!

哈哈我是住在加拿大的中国人，所以我们两的感觉是完全相反吧！

[–]ThrowAlert1     
I think the government also banned waste import from foreign countries last year,
I think its not so much complete ban but the criteria for import got more stringent. I know my home city basically has a bunch of plastic binned up and ready to go but China recently changed its impurity acceptance and now the plastic is just sitting because its not clean enough.

‘我想中国政府去年颁布的洋垃圾禁令也人们印像颇深’
这个禁令其实并不是完全禁止，只是垃圾进口的标准更加严格了。我的家乡城市对塑料垃圾的处理就是运往中国，但最近这些塑料垃圾不被接受了，原因是这些垃圾里的杂质太多纯净度不够（要是杂质低的话就接受了。

[–]CQlaowai 11    
It's actually changed massively in the past 1 months. Seems that a lot of the worst offending factories have been shut down completely. This winter in CQ was actually pretty decent where normally it's a vision of dystopia.

这些巨大改变都是在过去一个月里发生的，很多污染工厂都被完全关停了。不同与以往的雾霭沉沉，中国今年的冬天将会非常给力。

[–]chanhyuk 3    
never saw blue skies
Huge exaggeration. You would have to live in one of the most polluted cities in China to experience that if not the most polluted. Even Beijing gets blue skies every so often. Regarding pollution everything is getting better though.

‘天空总是灰蒙蒙一片’
你夸张了。除非你住的是全中国污染最重的城市，不然即使在北京，蓝天白云也是很常见的，更别说遍地都是垃圾了。

[–]gogoshaminoranger     
You're right, maybe it's a bit of an exaggeration. They were there occasionally but it was pretty rare.

你说的对，也许是有些夸张。蓝天白云也有机会见到，不过这机会还是有点低的。

[–]The_Hopeful_Dimwit 39    
Well at least that's some way to combat polution.

好吧至少我们有了对抗污染的新方法。

[–]Always-Offended 3    
I just hope they remember to change the filter..

我只希望他们会记得换滤芯..

[–]snakest 6    
So in a way, it's like making the company that is creating the pollution, responsible for dealing with it, before it becomes a public health hazard.
What a crazy concept.

这就是先让那些工厂制造空气污染，然后才轮到除霾塔过滤空气让空气污染水平变得不那么危险。
什么鬼主意。

[–]DayDrunk11 3    
This seems like the most monumental bandaid to a bad situation I've ever seen

我看这是亡羊补牢吧

[–]MetalIzanagi 1    
What China really needs is canned air.

中国需要的是瓶装空气。

[–]DaBIGmeow888 4    
wouldn't it be easier to put a giant filter on coal chimney smoke stacks?

直接把过滤器放在烧煤烟囱上不好吗？

[–]dobagela 5    
The US pollutes over twice as much compared to China per capita and has far less infrastructure in place to combat pollution, has a president that has claimed global warming is a hoax and on every single one of these pollution articles, it's always about why China can't do more. China has tackled this problem in so many ways whereas the US is twiddling its thumbs and slow as molasses in even accepting global warming exists.

美国人均造成的污染是中国人均的两倍，并且从来没有在打击污染上下过功夫。一到全球变暖的问题上就指责中国，要求中国做的更多。而实际上中国已经使用了很多方法来解决这方面的问题了，而美国对这方面的问题只会打太极踢皮球甚至都不承认全球变暖的存在。

[–]DeOh 7    
The US requires filters on it's smoke stacks and so stops the pollution at it's source. This useless giant air purifier is nothing but PR.

美国需要的是在每根烟囱上都装上过滤器在源头上阻止污染而不是造除霾塔这样的面子工程。

[–]dobagela 1    
Do you have a link about the EPA requiring filters, and what kind of filters? I couldn't find one.
The filters themselves however are extremely expensive and having one or two purifiers (for now) in the city that has several layers of filters seems like a better, more affordable, more realistic and quicker alternative to combating the problem than to require every individual smokestack to have one or two filters.

你知道环保局所需要的过滤器的数量 价格 种类吗？我不知道。
过滤器可能价格昂贵工厂每个烟囱上都装一个会难以负担，而在城市中建造一两个这样有多重滤芯的除霾塔会是更加现实更加快速更容易负担的选择。

[–]bearsnchairs     
This article is about a tower cleaning particulates out of the air, not scrubbing CO2.

这篇文章讲的是清除空气中的微粒而不是二氧化碳啊。

[–]quantum_ai_machine     
The reason per capita figures for pollution don't make sense is because pollution is not caused by just having more people (otherwise India and China would have the same emissions but India emits about one-fifth of what China does). Pollution is caused by economic activity and how that economic activity is managed in terms of environmental regulations. This is where China is currently worse off than almost every other country as evidenced by this table:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ratio_of_GDP_to_carbon_dioxide_emissions
Looking at this table, we see that the Swiss produce 9,000 dollars of economic output for one ton of CO2 produced. The US is much lower at 2,300 dollars. But China is at the very bottom at 435 dollars.

人均污染指数并不靠谱，因为不是人越多污染就越多的（不然印度的污染排放量就和中国持平了，但其实只有中国的五分之一）。造成环境污染的是经济活动，而管控经济活动的是环保条例，在这方面中国几乎比世界上其它任何国家都要弱，维基上世界各国二氧化碳排放量与gdp关系排名表可以看到排名靠前的瑞士每吨二氧化碳有9000美元的经济产出，美国低的多只有2300美元而中国排名倒数只有435美元。

[–]toasted_breadcrumbs 5    
This is highly misleading. First, as pointed out, not all economic activity leads to the same pollution intensity. The US does a lot of banking, for example, which creates little pollution compared to China's manufacturing.
Second and more importantly, who do you think consumes all the goods China produces? The main importer of China's manufactured products is the US, which means the US has effectively exported their pollution to China by paying them for energy intensive activity.

这完全是误导。首先不是所有的经济活动都会产生相同的污染。美国的银行业很多，和中国的制造业比产生的污染要小的多。
其次也是最重要的一点，你tm认为中国生产的所有货物都是给自己消费的吗？中国制造生产的产品很大一部分都销往了美国，意味着美国通过购买中国的商品吧污染都出口给了中国。

[–]quantum_ai_machine 1    
You are stating the obvious, but you are missing the point. The EU, US, Japan etc have tough environmental standards. Even some of the poorer countries have at least some environmental standards. Which is why it all moved to China where there were no standards. For example, steel price per tonne increases by around 40 dollars if you install carbon scrubbers. Plants in the US and EU have to install them but the Chinese don't. Yes this benefits consumers in the US and EU but at the end of the day, the Chinese have to enforce their own standards. But the government chose rapid industrialization over environmental standards.

说的不错，但你漏了一点。欧盟，美国，日本等国家有着严格的环保标准。就算是某些很穷的国家都有着自己的环保标准。对比下中国这个没有环保标准的国家，那些污染工业自然会都搬到中国去。举个例子装有二氧化碳过滤器的工厂生产一吨钢的成本是四十美元，在美国和欧盟的工厂都必须安装过滤器，但是在中国不用，这样的话美国和欧洲的消费者自然都会去买中国产的钢，可以说是中国政府为了快速工业化而主动牺牲了环境标准，并非美国自己把污染出口给了中国。

[–]dobagela 3    
That's a flawed comparison because economic output == need for CO2 emissions. China's a developing nation and can not develop without need for CO2 emissions. The comparison to the Swiss is not applicable as the majority of the Swiss economy is via the service sector, whereas the industrial sector only accounts for 5%. As China slowly switches from an industrial economy to a service driven one like the Swiss maybe then it could be a fair comparison. As it is, the numbers for China as an industry driven nation is still impressive:
"China's economy grew nearly 7 percent last year but emissions increased by just 1.7 percent (or 150 Mt) thanks to continued renewables deployment and faster coal-to-gas switching." https://www.ecowatch.com/global-carbon-emissions-5513087.html
I'm not sure about the numbers for India, and I could be totally off base but I am going to assume that India doesn't have quite the developing nation economic infrastructure in place that China does otherwise it'd be India in the news with trade war talks, not China. The fact is while India is also developing its economy it is no where near China's in terms of growth. Once it hits the level of where China is in development (if it ever does) we are all in trouble.

上面那个表能说明的情况极其有限因为经济生产并不等于二氧化碳排放量。中国是个发展中国家没了排放二氧化碳的相关产业就不能发展，而瑞士是以服务业为主的发达国家工业只占总经济的5%。除非中国缓慢的经济转型到以服务业为主，不然和瑞士是没有可比性的。事实上，以工业生产为主导的中国表现依旧亮眼：
“去年中国经济增长幅度在7个百分点左右，与此同时二氧化碳排放量的增长幅度却只有1.7个百分点（或150万吨），这要归功于可再生能源的使用和煤制气效率的大大提高”
我不清楚印度的数据是怎样，也许我的观点是错的，但是我认定印度的经济发展基础设施不如中国，否则和美国打贸易战的就不是中国了。不过印度也正在发展中只是发展程度远不如中国罢了，一旦印度发展到和中国相当的程度 我们可都吃不了兜着走。

[–]quantum_ai_machine -    
The comparison to the Swiss is not applicable as the majority of the Swiss economy is via the service sector
That's ridiculous. I was not comparing China to the Swiss. Switzerland ranks #1 on that list, while China is right at the bottom (#175) - worse than almost any other nation on Earth. But somehow Chinese nationalists will even spin that shit around.

‘瑞士和中国完全没有可比性’
逗比，我没有拿瑞士和中国比较。瑞士排名第一而中国排名远在175-比大多数世界上的其它国家都差。可能是某些中国国家主义者喜欢在这乱搞吧。

[–]dobagela
Ok, I don't know why you would mention them then if you weren't using them a comparative example. You literally just compared them again by calling them #1, and China #175.
It just doesn't make sense though. The Swiss economy is not primarily based on an industry sector. China, like most developing countries has/had a strong dependence on their industry sector which in turn depends on CO2 emissions unlike the service sector.

哦，那你不对比还把这两国家说出来干嘛，还特别说一个是第一一个是175？？
毫无意思，再次强调瑞士是服务业为主的发达中国是工业为主的发展中国家用二氧化碳排放量来对比完全没有可比性。