台湾民主是一个失败的实验吗？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：feihu2000-审核者：酒醉的动机------------



Is Taiwan's democracy a failed experiment?

台湾的民主是个失败的实验吗？



-------------译者：feihu2000-审核者：酒醉的动机------------

Li-Ping Yuan lives in Chicago
Written Dec 30
To mainland China Taiwan’s democracy is an experiment. To Taiwan it is a real life. I don’t see it will fail unless mainland China kills it with military forces. I certainly don’t see Taiwan will go back to the days of censoring news media and limiting political activities.

对中国大陆来说台湾的民主是实验。对台湾来说，这是一个真实的生活。我没有看到台湾的民主会失败除非中国大陆武力终结它。我当然不认为台湾会回到审查新闻媒体和限制政治活动的日子.。

Democracy has no magic to change things suddenly as desired. Actually it is the opposite. It is inefficient in many ways. If a country has a good target to achieve a more centralized system can do that much faster as seen in four little dragons after 1960s and China after 1980s with the economic growth as their target (and Hitler in Germany). However when a society has multiple competing desires such as wealth distribution vs. total wealth environment fair and justice (human rights) local special issues minorities etc. democracy is probably the only peaceful solution.

民主不是魔法可以突然改变事物。事实上它是相反的。它在许多方面是低效的。如果一个国家有一个良好目标需要实现，那么更加集权的中央系统就可以更快的实现这个目标，这可以从1960年代之后的亚洲四小龙和1980年代后中国经济发展中看出来（以及希特勒的德国）。然而，当一个社会有多个相互竞争的愿望，如财富分配与总财富环境，公平正义（人权），地方特殊问题，少数民族等，民主可能是唯一和平的解决方案。

-------------译者：feihu2000-审核者：酒醉的动机------------

Gabriel Chan Ich bin ein Idealpolitiker
Written Fri
It doesn’t matter at all what kind of political system Taiwan has because the ROC-PRC contention is an example of Finlandization in the Far East.

台湾有什么样的政治体系并不重要，因为中华民国和中华人民共和国之争就是远东芬兰化的一个例子。

As long as the PRC is competently administered it is going to overtake the ROC rump state on Taiwan. The window to retake the Mainland of China closed in 1964 with the nuclear test of Lop Nor.

只要中华人民共和国被管理得井井有条，那么中国势必接管台湾的中华民国残留政权。反攻大陆的窗口在1964年的罗布泊核试验后就关闭了。

Taiwan only keeps existing thanks to its de facto status as a U.S. protectorate and its potential value as an unsinkable aircraft carrier for American forces against the PRC as it had been since 1949.

台湾之所以可以留存至今，是因为实际上有美国保护着而且自1949年以来作为美国对抗中国的不沉航母才对美国有潜在的价值。

Both the PRC and USA meddle too much in ROC affairs. As long as there are foreign contaminants any experiment will be a failed experiment!

中国和美国都对台湾事务进行了过多的干涉。只要有外来污染物，任何实验都是失败的实验.！

 -------------译者：lybrel-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Randall Burns I studied Economics at the University of Chicago(AB 1981). Write at VDARE.com
Written Dec 27
Taiwan’s democracy is far from a sham. The political culture has some problems However Taiwan is a long ways from a failed state. Taiwan is not hugely corrupt state. Part of the issue are expectations.Taiwan played an excellent game of “catching up” with Western nations given access to world markets up to point. Taiwan has failed so far to become a real engine of innovation or develop the excellence at product refinement we’ve seen in Japan and South Korea. It isn’t that Taiwan is a mess but it doesn’t seem to be really overtaking major developed economies.
I don’t think it is fair to compare Taiwan to Hong Kong or Singapore. Those countries occupy niche’s as major regional financial centers that are not really open to Taiwan because its peculiar legal status. I think what will settle this issue; do the more developed parts of China start to have simllar problems as they near a similar level of development as Taiwan now has? It is plausible the problem may have little to do with the political system.

台湾的民主远远称不上羞耻。政治文化是有一些问题，但是台湾距离一个失败的政权还很遥远。台湾并不是一个有大量腐败的政体。部分问题在于人们期望过高。台湾在"追赶"西方国家上做的很好，获得了世界市场的准入。台湾迄今未能成为如同我们看到日本和韩国那样真正的创新或开发卓越精制产品的引擎。这不是说台湾有多槽糕，但它似乎并没有真正超过主要发达经济体。
我认为将台湾同香港和新加坡进行比较是不公平的。这些国家作为主要的区域金融中心具有垄断地位，这样的金融中心由于台湾特殊的法律地位而不真正成为的。我认为下面这个问题可以解决这个争论: 中国较发达的地区在接近与台湾相似的发展水平时是否开始出现类似的问题？问题很有可能与政治制度没有什么关系。

-------------译者：风中月-审核者：风中月------------

Paul Denlinger Waiting for Taiwan's unification with PRC
Written Dec 27
I would say “Yes” and it proves that democracy has not worked well within a Chinese social context.

我会给出肯定的回答，这证明了民主在中国的社会环境下没能很好地发挥效力。

For the most part Taiwan’s experiment with democracy is a repeat of the Republic of China experience in mainland China from 1912 - 1949. Taiwan democracy since 1988 (the death of Chiang Ching-kuo) has resulted in economic stagnation and useless and divisive political debates which have left Taiwan far behind South Korea’s and more importantly the PRC’s. Taiwan lacks direction in terms of political and economic policy.

台湾的民主实践大部分是在重复中国大陆在1912年至1949年的做法。自从1988年蒋经国死后，所谓的民主导致了台湾的经济停滞和混乱无用的政治斗争，令台湾远远地落后于韩国，当然也落后于大陆中国。台湾在政治及经济制度方面依然缺乏正确的方向。

Because of this failed experiment Taiwan has helped the Chinese Communist Party’s argument that democracy is not suited to the Chinese people.

台湾民主实践的失败论证了中国共产党的观点，即西方民主不适合中国人民。

-------------译者：huangjian_1984-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Yu-Hsing Chen lives in Taiwan
Written Dec 30
No it’s problems are the same as seen by pretty much democracies everywhere.

不，它的问题看起来和相当多的民主国家一样。

There’s a growing sense of the failures of democracy in the world and it’s a pretty consistent trend everywhere the new information age and other factors have become a pretty serious issue

现在全世界的人们都越来越觉得民主是失败的，新的信息时代以及其他的一系列因素在推动着这个观念。

You see the problem is parties figured out that their actual goal is to “win and stay in power” the whole “running the country for the good of the people part” comes a VERY distant second . this is especially true when they’re NOT in power.

你看问题出在政党们真正的首要目标是“赢得并保持权力”，“为百姓谋取福利而行政”的口号变成遥远的第二位。尤其在野的时候更加露骨。

Because we’ve set up to theoretically have government run to benefit everyone that logically ends up with the conclusion that for the opposition party to win power it must prove / make the ruling party FAIL at doing that. and that’s what pretty much everyone from Taiwan to the USA have been trying their damn hardest to do.

因为我们成立政府理论上是为大众谋福利的，所以反对党为了赢得权力就必须得提供或者制造执政党没能为大众谋福利的证据。这正是包括台湾和美国等国家的人们使尽脑汁正在做的事情。

 -------------译者：yanzi0029-审核者：真是日了狗------------

We must pretty seriously consider the usefulness of a system if nearly half of the political establishment and in turn at least 40% of the population act to MAKE THE COUNTRY FAIL to various degree .

如果将近一半的政治机构相应地至少40%人口的行为在不同程度上导致国家失败，我们就必须认真考虑制度的有效性。

Because party politics evolve and most people support one party out of more of a sports team mentality or other more single issue oriented question than actually looking at a bigger picture.

因为政党政治的演变，大多数人支持一个政党更多地出于支持一支运动队的心态或其他更单一的问题的因素，而不是站在更宏观的大局。

The information age have also given the extremist a much bigger platform to legally rant whatever their most extreme crazy shit and call it freedom of speech. and we’ll totally defend whenever crazies go around shooting minorities that it totally had nothing to do with that. when any sane logical person should see that it obviously has EVERYTHING to do with it.

信息时代也给了极端主义者一个更大的平台来合法发表他们最极端和疯狂的言论，并称之为言论自由。每当极端分子四处射杀少数群体，而这些人声称他们的言论与此无关时我们坚决抵制，而任何有逻辑思维能力的理性人应该看到它显然与这一切有关。

We’ve entered as stage where no matter who’s in charge everyone else will try their hardest to ruin his rule while certainly politics in any form would have this problem the blatant open and mass nature of the current iteration on top of being fueled by extremist rhetoric online that can spread false rumors without any legal risk is making things much worse.

我们已经进入了一个新的阶段，无论谁执政其他人都会尽最大的努力破坏他的统治，而任何形式的政治都会有这个问题，而当前政治的公开和大范围被网络上没有任何法律风险的极端主义言论加持将使情况变得更糟。

-------------译者：钦厥止-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Roger Do lived in Taiwan 罗杰，亲身在台湾生活过
Written Dec 27
No. Taiwan’s democracy is not a failed experiment. Taiwan’s democracy produces elected officials has peaceful transition of power and passes legislation that includes a wide range of opinion.

不，台湾民主不是失败品。台湾民主产生了民选官员，权力交接和平，通过了代表各方观点的法律。

Taiwan’s democratic process is uneven and noisy at times but that’s the feature of a democracy. What Paul Denlinger suggests that Taiwan’s democracy is the proof that the Chinese people don’t deserve democracy is a very old saw and an argument that centralist countries have been using to deny democracy. It is also a severely flawed argument.

台湾民主过程中有时候不平稳、又吵又闹，但那正是民主的特性。Paul Denlinger 所谓的台湾民主证明中国人不值得拥有民主，是严重的老眼光；这是中央集权国家用来否定民主的论调，而且是一个有着严重缺陷的论调。

Taiwan has done an admirable job survive against the constant pressure of China depriving it of international participation. As for economy Taiwan is rank 35 globally at 22K while China is 73 at 8K where as China has vastly more resources and a more direct economic influence. If democracy was a failed experiment then how did Taiwan get ahead of China? To cite only the people when China start to mortgage its people’s health and the environment in exchange for currency shows how morally bankrupt the argument it.

台湾真是太棒了，能在中国挤压其国际参与的长期压力中生存下来。作为一个经济体，台湾人均GDP是22K美元，位列全球第35，而中国以8000美元的人均位列第73. 别忘了，中国有着大得多的资源和更直接的经济影响力，如果台湾民主是个失败品，那台湾怎么能走在中国之前？仅以人民为例，当中国把牺牲人民健康和环境作为代价换取经济成功时，我们就知道那种论调是多么的道德沦丧。

Most democracies believes the people can make better choices than a few committees over their lives centralist economy believes people are not smart enough to make intelligent decisions.

大多数民主国家相信，人民，而不是几个委员会，会对大众的生活做出更好的抉择；中央集权政体认为人民没有足够的智力去做出理智的抉择。