[quora]中国经济那么差，是制度的锅么？ [美国媒体]

Is communism the reason why China has a bad economy?

中国经济那么差，是制度的锅么？




1、Robert Birch, studied at Thunderbird School of Global Management
Answered Jun 8
Robert Birch，就读于雷鸟国际管理学院

Contrary to your presumption that “China has a bad economy” is the fact that in the last 50–60 years the Chinese economy has brought more people out of poverty than any economy in world history. Approximately 500,000,000 citizens of the People’s Republic of China have had five decades of increased personal household income. Therefore, if you are analyzing connections between socialism and negative growth, look to countries such as post-WWII Burma-Myanmar, North Korea, and Cuba.

与你傲慢的偏见“中国经济很差”正好相反，实际上在过去的50-60年以来，中国经济已经让很多人脱离贫困，脱贫人数远超世界历史上任何经济体。大约有5亿中国公民50年来家庭收入持续增加。因此，如果你想分析社会主义和负增长的之间的关系，建议你可以看看二战后的缅甸，北朝鲜和古巴。

2、Sam Qwato
Updated Jun 16
Q. Is communism the reason why China has a bad economy?
·        This question is moot.
·        China forklifted 600m people outof poverty in a blink of 40 years, from the baseline of a command economy. Abadly-managed economy, a bad economy, inept administrators will not achievethat.

问：中国经济那么差，是制度的锅吗？
这个问题很智障，没有任何意义。
中国用40年从最底线出发，让6亿人口脱贫。任何一个缺乏管理的经济，低迷的经济或者愚蠢的监管都无法达到这个成就的。

3、Ivan Bangov,Professor Theoretical chemistry and Chemoinformatics
The question must be “Is communismthe reason why China has a extremely good economy”. Many people say thatChina has “capitalism”. Practically it has a mixed economy.
1.      The whole economical developmentis observed, planned and guided by one center, Chines Communist Party.
2.     Some days ago I heard that Chinahas no private trade banks. This is very important because banks do not produceanything. They produce money from money only. The banks in Chine are onlyservice. Hence, in China the interest rates are 2% only, to cover the expensesof their functioning. This leads to this strong increase of the Chines economy.
3.     Chinese economy is not liberaleconomy, this is the reason for its success.

Ivan Bangov，理论化学和化学信息学教授
正确的提问姿势应该是这样“中国经济那么好的原因是制度么？”，很多人说中国是资本主义，实际上是混合经济（国营私营混合存在）
1、经济总发展取决于中国，也有其监管、计划和指引。
2、之前我听说中国没有私人银行，这一点非常重要，因为银行除了钱不能生产其它任何东西。在中国银行只为服务。进一步而言，在中国银行利率只有2%，以弥补他们的运营开销。这引领了中国经济的强力增长。
3、中国经济并非自由经济，这是他为什么会成功的原因。

4、Luke silkotch, Beenstudying Political and Economic Science since I was 13.

从13岁开始学习政治和经济科学

China’s economic system iswhatever the western media says it is.

西方记者笔下的中国经济形势，不外乎于以下几种：

When China’s economy is booming,everyone chants “See, see? Thanks to liberal reforms, China is better off thanthey were under Communism!”

当中国经济爆发式增长时，他们会说：“看啊！感谢自由改革，中国变得比制度时期更好了！”

Then as soon as China’s economy crasheslike any other market economy, everyone yells “Stupid stupid communists,Communism is a failure and always will be! Stupid stupid liberals, Berniesupporters, and everyone else I disagree with for thinking such a system couldpossibly work!”

一旦中国经济像别的经济体一样奔溃的时候，他们又会大喊：“愚蠢的制度，失败的制度一向如此！愚蠢的自由主义者，伯尼支持者（伯尼指伯尼桑德斯），以及所有我不赞同的人，他们居然认为这个经济形式行得通！”

Then, China’s economy willrecover, the west will sing the praises of capitalism, and the cycle repeats.

当中国经济复苏，西方记者又开始歌颂资本主义好，资本主义棒！
以此循环。

In practice, China has a verymixed economy(“Socialist Market Economy”, they call it), employing multiplestate-owned corporations that ensure the party’s dominance over the economywhile still allowing private enterprise.

实际上，中国拥有一个非常复杂的混合经济（他们称为：社会主义市场经济），利用多重多样的国企确保了中国的经济领导者地位，同时也有很多私企存在。

And no,China’s economy is not “bad” like you say, the economic policies mentionedabove has rocketed China’s economy into being the largest in the world.

并且，中国经济一点也不差，相反中国坐火箭般，正在变成世界最大经济体。

5、Larry Park
BadEconomy in China ? hi this question author, let me ask you a question : isthere an economy in the whole today better than China’s economy ? if you don’tknow please don’t ask such question next time to make yourself look bad . Chinahas kept a GDP growth of 9–10% from 1987 to 2014 and then slow down to 6–7%till now. America’s GDP growth has been just 1–2 % for many years, someEuropean countries even has minus growth. by the way, do you know what GDPstands for ?

Larry Park
中国经济很差？题主我想问你一个问题：如今那个国家的经济比中国更好?
如果你不知道就不要问这样愚蠢的问题，这样会让你变得智障。从1987年到2014年，中国保持了9-10%的GDP增长，现在下滑到了6-7%。美国近几年GDP增长仅仅是1-2%，很多欧洲国家甚至是负增长。
顺便问一下：你知道GDP指的是什么吗？

6、Mikhail Vorobev,Master's Tourism, Moscow State University (2017)
1.      Communism in China?
2. Chinahas a bad economy?

Mikhail Vorobev，旅游业硕士，莫斯科国立大学
1、  中国，制度？
2、  中国，经济差？
（俄罗斯小哥眼光毒辣）

7、Tobias Potocek, Master's degree Computer Science, Charles University inPrague (2016)

Tobias Potocek，计算机科学硕士，查尔斯大学，布拉格

China doesn’t have bad economybut I wouldn’t be too excited about their past growth. Not that it’s notimpressive; pulling out all those people from extreme poverty is definitelyworth recognition. But you need to remember that it is always easier to growfast from nothing. It’s like with cars: if one car speeds up from 50 to 100km/h and the other from 150 to 200 km/h over the same period of time, then yes,the first car doubled its speed but at the end of the day, the second car hadthe identical speed increase and it’s still going significantly faster.Obviously this comparison is very rough but it’s a perspective that you shouldkeep in mind when comparing e.g. USA with China.

中国的经济一点也不差，但是我也不会因为他们过去的增长感到过多的惊讶。并不代表他们所做的不令人钦佩，让大量的穷人脱贫的确是一件值得赞扬的事情。但是你得知道，从无到有一向很简单，举例：如果在同一个时间段里，一辆车从50km/h加速到100km/h，而另一辆需要从150km/h加速到200km/h，毫无疑问第一辆车速度加倍了，但是一天过去了，第二辆车同样加了50km/h的速度，并且跑的更快了。显然这样的对比很简单粗暴，但是这个道理你必须记住，尤其是你将中国和美国相互作比较的时候。

Which brings another point: Chinamay be expected to overtake USA as the largest economy in the world very soon.But it has also 4 times the population of USA. Measured economically, anAmerican produces significantly more / is significantly more efficient than aChinese.

再来说一些别的观点：中国也许很快会超越美国变成世界第一大经济体，但是中国人口是美国的四倍。衡量经济,美国明显比中国更高效。

Even then there is still no pointin asking whether it’s the fault of Chinese “communistic” regime because Chinais still in the upward trajectory. For me the interesting and very importantquestion is where is the limit for this Chinese growth. Is there a potential toovertake USA even in GDP per capita? Or is the regime exactly the reason whythis will never happen?

即使这样，现在没有任何观点指出这一切是否是中国制度导致的，因为中国任然处于上升的轨道。对我而言，最优意思的并且也最重要的是：中国增长的界限在哪里？他们在人均GDP上是否也有超过美国的潜力？或者因为政体原因，这一切将永远不会发生？

I’m more inclined to believe inthe second scenario (or more precisely, given that I strongly believe inWestern liberal democracy, this would give me certain satisfaction even thoughI really don’t wish the Chinese to “lose”). This is for these two (perhapsnaive) reasons:

我更倾向于相信第二种结论（或者更准确的说，考虑到我对西方自由皿煮的强烈信念，即时我不希望中国输掉，但我还是认为这个结论更能让我心满意足），原因有两点：

1.      The corruption is a huge problemin a single-party system like the Chinese one. There are no public media thatcould actually independently fight the corruption and the internal mechanismsare just as corrupted by their nature. This is never good for economy as itleads to inefficiency.

1、  腐败问题，中国有着巨大的FB问题，媒体无法公然反对FB，商人跟着FB。这些对经济百害而无一利。

2.     I don’t think that a country canbecome an actual economical, cultural and innovation leader when its citizensare expected to bend down before the central government and simply follow. Theyare not free. Also from another perspective, such a country is hardly asattractive as e.g. the aforementioned United States to smart people from allover world (note that many leaders and founders of the most successful Americancompanies are immigrants or offsprings of immigrants; Steve Jobs is oneexample).

2、  我认为这样一个国家无法成为经济、文化、创新的领导者，因为他的国民对于ZF仅仅是屈服和顺从。他们没有自由！从跟多的角度出发，这样的一个国家是无法成为如美国一般有魅力的国度，能吸引来自五湖四海的优质人才。（在美国大部分领导和创始人都是移民或者移民后裔，比如乔布斯）