尽管人不在，人们还会把自己的东西留在图书馆占位好几个小时 [美国媒体]

-------------译者：翀翀麻麻-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

etherealwandering 于 6 天前 发表
你好 – first post ever on reddit. Not sure whether it’s wise or not to mention that.
Have been a xuesheng in Shanghai for several months now.
Have spent a solid portion of that time in one particular library.
Have seen one perplexing trend during the whole of that time:

你好——第一次在Reddit上发言，不确定提这件事是否明智。我是一个学生，现在在上海呆了几个月。其中一部分固定时间都花在某个特定的图书馆里。在此期间，我发现了一个让人困惑的现象：



Quite a few folks arrive between 8am and 10am to claim a spot and place their stuff there and then… that’s it. That’s their spot for the rest of the day. Period. If you’re not in that crowd claiming a spot on the first floor is simply out of the question after 10 am. After noon or so you can give up on floors 2-4 as well. Unfortunately my class schedule usually keeps me busy right until noon.

有很多人在早上8点-10点之间就到图书馆占了个座位，把他们的东西放在那里，然后就没然后了....剩余的一整天，那里就是他们的地盘了。如果你不是早上十点那批占位的人，那么十点之后你在一楼是绝对找不到座位的。在中午左右，你也别想在2-4楼那儿找到座位了。不幸的是，我的课程安排让我会一直忙到中午。

Thank God for the relatively uninhabited 5th floor save for the fact that it’s shut up at 6:30 pm. Finding a spot after that time anywhere has often been hopeless.

谢天谢地，除了下午6：30闭馆以外，空无一人的5楼还是有座位的。在那之后，是没希望再找到一个座位了。

Now.. it’s not so much an issue of capacity. There are a large group of liuxuesheng living right on campus here and almost none of them actually use the library (not a particularly serious crowd here). There are not an overwhelming number of Chinese. For the most part it’s just a campus for grad students.

呃....并不是（图书馆）容量大小的问题。这里有很多留学生住校，实际上他们中几乎没有人去图书馆（这里并没有特指某些人），这里的中国人也没压倒性数量的多。很大程度上，是因为这里是研究生的校园。

However at peak times of the week I often find myself mounting a bit of frustration when no spaces are available despite the fact that no one has been sitting in them for over two hours often even 4 or more. Their stuff usually organized in a perfect little mound of books and/or hardware continues to hold down the fort for them.

然而，在一周里的高峰期，当没有座位时，我经常会感到沮丧，因为事实是，没有人会连续坐超过两小时甚至四小时或者更长时间。他们的东西经常被放置得很完美，用一小堆书或者硬件来替他们守住其“堡垒”。

What are they doing in the meantime? Going to class surely. Eating sometimes. Teaching interpretation practice. These are the trades a majority of them are here to learn and improve and I’ve enjoyed supporting the friends I have among their ranks.

与此同时他们又在做什么呢？当然是去上课了，有时是去吃饭，口译教学练习。这些人里的大多数是为了学习和进步而来，我很高兴支持这些朋友，我也身在其中。

But all of the locations on campus they could possibly need to access are quite literally a 3-minute journey or less away from the library. The 食堂 is a 30 second trot.

但是校园里所有的地方，从图书馆走过去只要3分钟或者更短的时间，食堂小跑过去只要30秒。

-------------译者：willdemon-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

​Is it so difficult to carry one’s belongings with oneself and allow others to make use of a public venue?

把自己的东西带走，空出公共场所给别人使用有那么困难吗？

I don’t believe I’m simply a “Western nuisance” for suggesting this is lamentably inconsiderate behavior. And it’s not being done by 16 year-olds. These are folks mostly older than my 23-yr old self.

我不相信仅仅因为我是个“讨厌的西方人”，才会指出这种恶劣的的自私自利的行为。而且这些事都不是16岁的人干的，干这些事的人可基本都比23岁的我还要大啊。

But before making any further assertions I’d like to ask first since my sample size has been limited almost exclusively to a single library – is this normal? Is this widely accepted behavior at most Chinese universities? If so I would still of course disagree with it but at least understand social context a bit better. If no one else here sees it as a nuisance I can imagine that no one else here sees a need to change it (I must seriously doubt that I’m the only one however).

但是在我进一步阐述之前，我想先问一下这种情况正常吗，因为我的观察样本仅限于某个图书馆，这种行为在中国大学里是被普遍接受的吗？即便是普遍的我也不认同，但是至少我对产生这种现象的社会环境能有更深入一点的了解。如果这里的其他人都不把这种行为当作坏事，我猜没人想要改变这种现状（尽管我严重怀疑我不可能是唯一一个这么认为的）。



Based off of my largely positive interactions with Chinese students and peers in most other capacities and situations both here and back home I’m going to guess (and hope) the answer is “no” and that this is simply a poor 习惯 accepted without challenge at this particular university (上海外国语大学 – 虹口校园) for whatever reason.

基于我和这边以及我老家那儿的中国同学们与同龄人之间就满座情况进行的广泛的正面互动，我猜（也希望）我提出问题的答案是“不” ，这种情况只发生在这所大学(上海外国语大学 – 虹口校园)，人们不知为什么，习惯了这种恶习却不挑战改变它。

But perhaps it is a larger custom that has justifications I don’t understand.

但是这也许是广泛存在的习惯，有其存在但不为我所知道的理由。

I have many wonderful Chinese friends here and at home and don’t want to theorize any generalizations in this post. It is for me a trifling ordeal anyway since I’ll be finishing studies here soon and moving to a new apartment and routine in Shanghai after August.

我在这里和老家都有很多不错的中国朋友。在贴文里我不想给中国人归类定性。这种事情对我而言只是微不足道的负面体验。因为我很快就要完成这里的学业，并会在8月份后搬到上海新的公寓，学习新的课程。

Nonetheless having now pondered this behavior for a good while receiving only passive opinions on it from Chinese friends here I’m asking for others’ experiences with sincere hopes of determining whether there is any significance or regularity to this behavior or if it is just an isolated trivial yet irritating phenomenon where I’m at.
Thoughts are duly appreciated!

虽然如此，我思考这个问题也有一段时间了，我从这里的中国朋友那里只得到了负面的回复。所以我想问一下其他人的经验，真心希望能够得到答案：这种行为是否有其存在的重要性或者什么规律， 还是这只是一个我所在的学校独有的讨厌现象。感谢给出你的想法！

-------------译者：翀翀麻麻-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

–]leanhsiGreat Britain 15 指标 6 天前 
I’d shove a pile aside and take the seat

我会把那一堆推开，然后坐下。

[–]Xupc 5 指标 6 天前 
This is what I used to do as well. Move their shit and sit down to do your work. If they come to you to complain /u/etherealwandering pretend you have no idea and ignore them.

我曾经也是这么做的。把他们的东西移开，然后坐下做自己的事情。如果他们过来向你抱怨，你就假装不知道然后无视他们。

[–]etherealwandering[S] 1 指标 6 天前 
Appreciate your thoughts from experience Xupc. After reading from yours and others' I'm encouraged to use this exact tactic today haha

非常感激楼上的经验之谈，在得知你的方法后，今天我也打算鼓起勇气用这手段，哈哈。

[–]Lord-Uranus 4 指标 6 天前* 
If you don't want trouble switch everything everywhere in addition to that and enjoy the shit show. I wouldn't blame the students since the library management encouraged this kind of behavior by doing nothing. A lack of punishment against taking public resources for personal gains is not just a library problem.

除那之外，如果你不想因移开任何地方的任何东西而惹上麻烦，那就好好享受这堆垃圾秀。我不会去责怪学生，因为是图书馆的管理者对这类行为不作为。对出于私人利益而占用公共资源的行为缺乏惩罚措施不仅仅是图书馆的问题。

[–]FileError214 14 指标 6 天前 
Do you feel you could have made your point with about half as many words?

你没觉得其实用一半的话就能表述清楚你的观点么？

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 4 指标 6 天前 
didn't he just say he is an academic? what do you think people learn in universities?

他不是说他是一个学生么？你以为人们在大学里学了什么？

[–]FileError214 3 指标 6 天前 
What’s wrong with just being smart? Why do people feel a need to SHOW everyone how smart they are by talking/writing like this? Pseudo-intellectualism is stupid bullshit.

聪明有什么问题吗？为什么人们觉得需要用讨论或写下这种事来显示自己有多聪明呢？虚伪的唯智理论简直就是胡扯！

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 2 指标 6 天前 
And now look at the username

那么好好看看你自己的用户名吧。

[–]FileError214 2 指标 6 天前 
Smug fuck won’t even reply to anyone who’s responded.

自以为是的人甚至不会去回复任何回复他的人。

-------------译者：leo5465768-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]enxiongenxiongUnited States 2 指标 6 天前 
I’ll bet he leaves his shit all over the library too.

我敢打赌他也会把他的东西全放在图书馆里（占位）。

[–]etherealwandering[S] 3 指标 6 天前* 
Well assumptions are being made quickly
I wrote the post finished some work for the evening and went to sleep. First time seeing these comments.

呃...武断的假设这么快就被提出了。我写下这篇贴文，晚上完成了一些工作，然后就去睡觉了。第一次看到这些评论。

No this "smug fuck" doesn't leave his shit all over the library too. I would be quite an ass for writing this long post if I was committing the same behavior.
What on earth people..

不，这个“自以为是的家伙”也不会把他的东西全留在图书馆里占位。如果我也做了那样自私的行为，那么写这篇长贴文的我还真是个混蛋。人们究竟是怎么了啊......

No I'm not an academic just have a tendency to be long-winded at times. I frankly had no idea this post was so long until I posted it. The OP has a point. I include too many unnecessary details in my communications at times

不，我不是一个“理论者”，只是有种有时会长篇大论的倾向。坦白说，我不知道贴文有这么长，直到我把它发布出去。网友FileError确实说对了一件事。我在交谈中有时确实会涵盖太多不必要的细节。

But.. "smug fuck" "pseudointellectual" etc
I guess you can assume a lot of a person without ever experiencing him or her.
Thanks for the thoughts I guess

但是…说我“自以为是”“伪知识分子”等。我猜你在没有与其交流过就武断片面地假设过很多人吧。好吧，那谢谢你的想法啊。

[–]mister_shamrock 2 指标 6 天前 
Yes after reading this i think its safe to assume "smug fuck" is an understatement.
Hi guys why do the students at my university in Shanghai take spots at the library and leave for hours on end? Is this normal in china?
Is that so hard

是的，在读完贴文后，我认为假设说贴主是“自以为是的家伙”这说法还算客气的了。嗨，伙计们，为什么在我就读的上海某所大学的学生，会把东西留在图书馆里占位，然后好几个小时后也不回来直到闭馆啊？这在中国正常吗？是那么难吗？

[–]mister_shamrock 6 指标 6 天前 
LOL writes a fucking think piece to show how superior they are compared to the Chinese? They could ask this question in about 10 words.... its exam time this happens at every fucking University library everywhere.

哈哈哈，写了这么一篇烂帖子来显摆他们和中国人相比有多优越？他们大约用10个词就能说明这个问题…现在正值考试期间，这种留书占位的事情在每个大学图书馆的各个角落都在上演。

[–]etherealwandering[S] 1 指标 6 天前 
Yes I am a superior white man the sage giving Chinese a bowl to drink from. That was absolutely my point. Nailed it
... Come on man

啊，没错，我是个优越感十足的白人，是个给中国人一碗水喝的圣人。这完全就是我的观点我的初衷，你完全说对了。......哥们，拜托诶。

glad you enjoyed my "think piece." Here again was one of its statements:
"Have seen one perplexing trend during the whole of that time..."

很高兴你喜欢我的“想法”。然后又有种评论风出现：“不过是在某段时期看到了一个让你困惑的现象罢了……”

it's been happening the entire time. Not just at exam time.
And no this doesn't happen at "every fucking university library everywhere." I practically lived at the library in the US and noticed this behavior only in isolation though hardly ever for longer than an hour or two. I have already stated my doubts that this is a trend throughout the whole of China. 

这种现象一直在发生，无时无刻。不只是在考试期间。不，不是“每个大学的图书馆”都会发生这种现象。我在美国的时候基本上就生活扎根在图书馆里了，有注意到极个别人会做出这种行为，但他们很少占位超过一或两个小时。我已经说过我怀疑这是种在整个中国都盛行的趋势。

-------------译者：开了个花-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]mglg 2 指标 6 天前 
tbh when I was in college it is quite common and i believe it is widely accepted across different universities. there is always some people just come in take the seat and don't give a fuck usually nothing will happen.

​说实话在我上大学的时候，这种事情相当普遍，我认为这在不同大学都被广泛接受。总是有一些人仅仅只是进来占个座后什么事都不做。通常什么都不会发生。

yes I agree it is an inconsiderate behavior. but I believe many people are thinking like that "I just go out to grab a lunch and will be right back so why bother taking everything. it's just much more convenient to leave stuff in the library." In most cases when there is plenty seats available it is much more convenient and will not impact others. So it is really not of a big deal as others can just sit elsewhere.
if it's in the exam season a different logic comes into play. As the chinese saying goes 'early birds get the worms'早起的鸟儿有虫吃. during the exam season seats in library are scarce resource and if you want it you need to fight it. so whoever gets up early than otheres should be able to 'claim' the seats. I believe this logic is accepted by most chinese. So you will see a fight for the seats when library opens and very few people will just come in and take up others' seats later in the day.

是的，我同意这是很不顾及他人的行为，但是我相信很多人都抱着这样的想法：“我只是去吃个午饭，很快就会回来，为什么要费那个劲带上所有东西呢，把它们留在图书馆要方便得多。”大多数情况下还是有很多空位的，这确实是比较方便，并且也不会影响到别人，因而这不是什么大问题，别人可以坐其他空余的座位。如果是在考试期，则是另外一种道理了。正如中国的谚语所说：早起的鸟儿有虫吃。在考试周期间，图书馆的座位就是稀缺资源，如果你想有座位，就必须去争抢。所以只要起得比别人早，就可以“认领”座位。我相信大多数中国人都接受这种道理，所以当图书馆开门时，你会看到一场座位之战。只有很少的人会在这一天接下来的时间里进来，坐上他人的座位。

Back to your question yes it is widely accepted and I believe there are some cultural background to it as many foreigners may find this behavior inconsiderate and uncivilized while very few chinese will go against it.

回到你的问题上。是的，这种行为是得到普遍接受的，而且我相信它背后有着一定的文化背景，尽管很多外国人认为这种行为自私自利不文明，却很少有中国人会反对它。

[–]etherealwandering[S] 1 指标 6 天前 
Good thoughts man. Thank you so much for recalling your experiences.
And I completely understand the lunchtime logic - really don't have a problem with it at that stage. People are usually there and back in 45 minutes. No biggie.

哥们，很好的意见。非常感谢你回忆了自己的经历。我完全能理解只是吃个午餐很快就回来的这种事，这我真的完全能接受。通常人们出去后45分钟内就回来了，这不要紧。

But when it begins to exceed an hour and a half 3 hours 5 hours etc then I believe it's just getting silly.
And if there were seats everywhere here then of course I'd have no reason to say anything but it's a rather small place and all of the spots next to electric outlets get eaten up quickly. That's when it becomes a "biggie" I suppose

但是当时间超过1小时、1.5小时、3、5个小时等，这就变得愚蠢了。如果到处都有空座位我当然毫无理由去说什么，但是图书馆空间其实不大，且所有靠近电源插座的点很快就被占据光了。这种情况下，那就成为一个“问题”了。

Exam season is an extraordinary time so I'm more willing to put up with that kind of logic at that time. I'm living in there along with them. I do wish the "every man for himself" mentality wasn't so fierce though

考试周是特殊时期，所以我更乐意去接受那个时期的那种道理（上个回复提到的座位之战）。我和他们住在一起，我只是希望这种“自我主义”的心态不要那么猛烈。

Ironically the school safety vid or whatnot they showed at the beginning of the year emphasized the risk of burglary and measures taken to avoid it. Applies everywhere except the library I suppose heh
These were really helpful thoughts man. Explains more of the context I was hoping to understand. 感谢你！

讽刺的是，我认为他们在年初展示的强调了盗窃风险、以及采取的防避措施的校园安全视频或诸如此类，适用于几乎每一个地方，除了图书馆外。呵呵。朋友，你的这些意见真的很有用，解释了超出文段之外的很多我希望能了解到的东西，感谢你！

 -------------译者：翀翀麻麻-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

[–]mglg 1 指标 6 天前 
I can understand. Back in the day I sometimes got upset when all the good spots were occupied and no one was there. I believe most people know it is wrong and against the official rule. So if someone just take the 'empty' seat from others most people will not argue for it. IMO it is the Chinese culture that prevents people from doing that(take others' seats) as people don't want to appear to be the 'bad/mean' guy. Especially there is the possibility that the 'owner' of the seats will argue with you and in that case most people don't want to attract the attention of the whole room or at least feel embarrassed. I hope this explains the part why few people step up.

我可以理解。以前读书的时候，要是所有的好位置全都被占了，但却没人坐在那里的话，我也偶尔会郁闷的。我相信大多数人都知道这样做是不对的，违反了（图书馆的）正式规定。所以如果有人坐在那些“空”的位置上，大多数人也不会有意见。在我看来，中国文化不允许人们那样做（占领其他人的座位），因为人们不想表现出自己是一个“坏/小气”的人。有可能占座的人会和你辩论，但那种情况下，很多人都不想引来整个房间里的人的注意，或至少是引来尴尬。我希望这解释了为什么少有人抗议这种事。

[–]bigbosslaowaiBest Korea 4 指标 6 天前 
Chuck it on the floor. If anything good then take it.

把他们的东西扔到地板上。如果里头有的好书或好东西，就自己拿走用。

[–]etherealwandering[S] 0 指标 6 天前 
Nice!

妙招啊！

[–]smasbut 1 指标 6 天前 
This is normal at my college’s library in Chongqing. Only really a big deal in the lead up to exams when everyone is going there.

在我读的重庆的大学图书馆里这是很常见的。当考试周来临大家都去图书馆读书时，这种事才会惹出问题。

[–]etherealwandering[S] 1 指标 6 天前 
有意思。I appreciate your thoughts smasbut. Yeah my university's other campus is gigantic and has a gigantic library so I doubt that anyone there is ever truly without a place to sit. But everything is quite tiny here in the middle of this old Hongkou campus thus the exam rush does leave out poor old stragglers like myself at times

有意思。网友smasbut，谢谢你的想法。但是，我大学的另一个校区很大，那儿有个超大的图书馆，所以我怀疑是否有人真的没有位置可坐。但是在我现在所在的虹口旧校区中心，每样事物都很小。因此考试高峰期常常令我们这些可怜的“流浪者们”无地可呆。

[–]caketaster 1 指标 4 天前 
It's definitely a rarely reported Chinese 'thing'. I was in a cafe in the UK a few years back and most of the booths were full so I had to sit at a crappy shared central table. One particular booth was occupied by a laptop but no people but obviously no-one sat down there. After 90 minutes a member of staff tried to find out whose laptop it was. Surprise surprise it belonged to one of the Chinese sat at an entirely different table with a bunch of his mates. The booth had been blocked off to all others for a minimum of 90 minutes despite the owner sitting elsewhere. Ignorant prick.

 这绝对是一件很少被报道的中国“特色事”。几年前，我在英国的一家咖啡馆，大部分的雅座都人满为患，我不得不坐在一张糟糕的中央共享餐桌旁。有个雅座被一台笔记本电脑霸占，但是明显没有人坐在那里。90分钟后，咖啡馆一工作人员试图找出电脑的主人。令人惊讶的是，它属于一个和一帮朋友坐在另一张桌子上的中国人。尽管他没有坐，可是这个雅座就这样被白白占用了90分钟。无理的混蛋！