欧洲国家应该阻止中国在非洲扩张影响力吗？ [美国媒体]

Should European countries try to reduce Chinese influence in Africa?

欧洲国家应该阻止中国在非洲扩张影响力吗？




bezzlefordUnited Kingdom
Why？

为什么？

YoSoyUnPayasoThe Netherlands
International politics is a zero-sum game. More influence for China = less influence for us.

国际政治就是场零和游戏。中国影响力增长=我们影响力萎缩。

somagnoma
People usually capitalise US

中国人一直在利用美国。

Sam_R_KUnited States of America
China is basically investing shitloads of money into various African countries for their oil/diamonds/gold/chromium, because China has used up all of its own. And a lot of these contracts are pretty unfair, so it makes them economic puppets of China. Not to mention that the Chinese companies are not too kind to their workers or the environment.

中国消耗完了自身所有资源后，对非洲国家投资巨额资金以获取石油、钻石、黄金和金属铬等资源。这些国家签署这些不公平协议后都成了中国的经济傀儡。中国公司对其员工和环境也不友好。

EtztalaniGermany
So where exactly China is different in comparison to European or US companies?

所以中国公司和欧洲美国公司有什么区别呢？

JunkereggeGermany
OTOH, decades of Western development aid did nothing to improve the situation there. Only Chinese investments finally achieved progress.

另一方面，数十年的西方发展援助并没有改善当地经济。只有中国投资成功帮助当地经济实现了发展。

Helixon256Denmark
Not really. I think it is good if we help as well, but the world is not a zero sum game. This is not a preschool where we get upset whenever two kids other than us have fun :P

并不见得。我认为如果我们能有所帮助也很好，但世界不是一场零和游戏。世界不是一个看见其他两孩子玩得开心就沮丧的幼儿园。

Graf_lckyGermany
We should have invested earlier in Africa. But at the time there were fears that it could lead to a new form of colonialism. Apparently, distorting their markets with cheap overproduction of our agricultural sector, never been an issue for the ones from European who feared the new colonialism.
Chinese company's nowadays do invest there, but they also most always hire Chinese workers for the projects, leaving locals with a new street, but no knowledge about the building or maintaining of it.
In my opinion: yes we should have (edit: tried to invest too; not stop China), and still should invest and help the people there, instead of leaving it to the Chinese.

我们早该加大对非投资力度。然而那时存在一种忧虑，认为欧洲投资会导致新的殖民主义。但显然对于那些害怕新殖民主义的欧洲人来说，利用自身过剩的廉价农产品扭曲非洲市场却不是个问题。
现今中国公司的确在非洲加大了投资力度，但他们常只雇佣中国员工修建项目。给当地人留下一片崭新的街道后，当地人却对建设和维护建筑一无所知。
在我看来：我们早应投资非洲（注：早应投资非洲而不是阻止中国投资），现在仍应投资并帮助当地人，而不是将这一机会留给中国人。

bezzlefordUnited Kingdom
In my opinion: yes we should have, and still should invest and help the people there, instead of leaving it to the Chinese.
.. so why can't we equally invest in it? Why does there have to be a "back off China" feeling about this?

在我看来：我们早应投资非洲（注：也早应投资非洲而不是阻止中国投资），现在仍应投资并帮助当地人，而不是将这一机会留给中国人。
那为什么我们做不到平等地投资非洲呢？为什么还有种“必须让中国推出”的想法呢？

Graf_lckyGermany
may have worded it wrong, sorry. I don't think China should back off, we can invest along with them if it's up to me :)
But it would be stupid if we didn't invest at all.

不好意思，也许我说错了。我不认为中国应该退出非洲，在我看来我们可以与中国共同投资非洲 :)。

bezzlefordUnited Kingdom
Oh I totally agree, it's just the original question asked if we should be trying to "stop" China and I'm not really sure why?

我完全同意这点。最初的问题是我们是否应该让中国退出非洲，我不理解为什么要这么做。

Graf_lckyGermany
Yea, I am a bit confuse too by the harsh measurement OP proposes, but you are right, my answer combined with the question sounds a bit off from what i wanted to say.

是的，我也被这个提问搞糊涂了。但你是对的，我在这个问题的回答中也没有表达出我的真实想法。

PlanckInMyOwnEyeRussia
Well, I believe by European countries you meant mostly EU, but if I may, I'll give my comment (as an outsider) too.
Notion of reducing Chinese influence is negative by its nature, it's not constructive. I'd say it's rational to study the opportunities, and increase European influence instead, where it's reasonable. There are so many indicators that point that when Asian development will slow down, Africa will be the next center of growth, and it's not wise to disregard that possibility.

嗯，我觉得你指的欧州国家是欧盟国家吧。但我还是会以一个局外人的身份给出自己的评论。
试图削减中国影响力是种消极想法，并没有可多少行性。我更建议欧洲国家抓住机会并合理地提高自身在非影响力。有很多迹象显示随着亚洲经济增速放缓非洲将成为下一个增长核心，忽略这种可能性并不明智。

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woekawoekaEuropean Union
Why? It has benefit for both Africa and China

为什么要这么做？中国对非投资使双方都获益。

ParapolikalaScotland/UK/Germany/Yurp
What do (ordinary) Africans think? There are pros and cons to all kinds of development assistance and investment. Are Chinese projects benefitting the people who work there more than European ones? I fear that both tend to see Africa as a source of raw materials, and cash cropping as the route to development. But the long-term failure of African countries to develop often has more to do with instability and corruption. It is at least possible that Chinese "developmental authoritarianism" has benefits that European market-based liberal-democratic approaches do not. We've seen often enough that economic development can occur in less than liberal conditions (Taiwan, etc).
Anyway, I know little about this, but these seem to be some of the parameters to consider.

普通非洲人怎么看呢？各种发展投资援助其实都有利有弊。中国工程比欧洲工程更使劳工获益？我怀疑中欧都只将非洲看视作原材料来源地和经济作物种植地。其实长期以来非洲国家的发展失败更多与动荡的局势和腐败有关。至少中国的“发展权威主义经济”比欧洲的自由主义市场经济更有利于非洲。我们时常看到经济迅速发展只会在不那么自由的社会环境中出现（例如台湾地区）。
总之我对此也知之甚少，但至少这是一个重要参考因素。

metroxed
No, I can't see why.

不，我不明白为什么要这么做。

SilkkiuikkuFinland
Why? If Africans want to let China influence them, that's their choice.

为什么？如果美国乐意中国发挥其影响力，那时他们的自由。

random-guy410
They want money, like most countries. And, like most countries, they lack money.
Greece and Portugal are, to a lesser extend, another example of Chinese influence.

像大多数国家一样他们也想赚钱。同样他们也很缺钱。某种程度上希腊和葡萄牙是中国影响力扩张的另一个例子。

LudvigPoljeSerbia
Better question is what will Brussels do about growing Chinese influence in Balkans and central Europe.

把问题改成布鲁塞尔（欧盟总部所在地位位于比利时布鲁塞尔）如何应对中国在巴尔干地区和中欧国家日益增长的影响力更好一些。

kerelberelThe Netherlands
I'd rather have them than Russians, Arabs or Turks. At least the Chinese don't export ideologies.

与其让俄罗斯人，阿拉伯人和土耳其人投资非洲，还不如让他们去投资。至少中国没有向外输出意识形态。

RafaRealnessThe Netherlands
Chinese don't export ideologies.
... I think you should take a trip around Asia and ask about that.

中国没有向外输出意识形态。
我觉得你该去亚洲问问这一点。

random-guy410
Currently they don't. It's just about the money and international influence for China. It's not like the old URSS.

目前他们并没有输出意识形态。中国投资非洲只是为了利益和国际影响力。与过去苏联完全不同。

BuddhaKekzGermany
How could we even do that? Tell the African nations to stop working with China? What would we gain from that?
If anything we should invest more in Africa ourselves. And South America for that matter. The Chinese just jumped into the niche we left open for them and even though there methods are sometimes less than humane, for the most part their investment is still mutual benefit for both parties.

我们该怎么做呢？告诉非洲国家停止与中国合作？我们能从中获得什么？
我们该在非洲和南美进行更多投资。中国人钻进了我们留给他们的空子。尽管这些投资并不总是那么人道，但大部分投资是双赢的。

ohmyimaginaryfriends
So far the West influence in Africa has meant increase in radical Islam, genocides and dictatorships, the bar is so low China can only make things go up from here.

当前西方在非影响力就意味着伊斯兰极端主义，种族灭绝和独裁统治。局势如此糟糕以至于只有中国可以改善这一切。
lngulineEuropean Union
I think that Africa is big enough empty money bag that for now there is enough room for everyone willing to participate.

我认为非洲是一个足够大的空钱包，有足够空间容纳每一个乐意投资非洲的玩家。

asdasdbbkSwitzerland
I think this mindset that one's gain has to be the other's loss doesn't make much sense.
Nothing stops european countries from investing more in Africa, in parallel to what the chinese are doing.

我认为一人获益并不意味着其他人受损这种心态没什么意义。
没什么事情在阻挡欧洲国家像中国人正在做的一样投资非洲。

zdamanetaRomania
Offtopic question, but I wonder how many refugees did China, Japan and South Korea take in...

没什么意义的问题，我好奇的是中国，日本和韩国接收了多少难民？