在欧洲的不作为下，中国国企开始进入葡萄牙的电网 [美国媒体]

China set to fully control Portugal's power grid amid Europe's inertia

在欧洲的不作为下，中国国企开始进入葡萄牙的电网



The case could be a game changer when it comes to foreign investments in the EU, considering that currently the Commission lacks the proper legal framework to “protect”EU common interests.

考虑到目前欧盟委员会缺乏“保护”欧盟共同利益的适当法律框架，该交易实例可能会成为外国对欧盟投资的规则改变者。

China is set to make further inroads into European infrastructure, as a state-owned company attempts to gain full control of Portugal’s power grid.

随着一家国有企业试图完全控制葡萄牙的电网，中国将进一步进军欧洲基础设施领域。

The case could be a game changer when it comes to third country foreign investments in the EU. Currently, the Commission lacks the proper legal framework to “protect” EU common interests and it could be a wake-up call to speed up the procedure to establish an investments screening mechanism.

当涉及到第三国对欧盟的外国投资时，该交易实例可能会成为游戏规则改变者。目前，欧盟委员会缺乏“保护”欧盟共同利益的适当法律框架，该案例可能会敲响警钟，以加快建立投资审查机制的程序。

In 2011, Portugal’s government was required to sell its stake in the country’s power grids as part of the terms of its 78 billion bailout programme, organised by the European Commission and International Monetary Fund.

2011年，葡萄牙政府被要求出售其国家电网股份，作为其780亿欧元救市计划的一部分。该计划由欧盟委员会和国际货币基金组织组织实施。

China Three Gorges (CTG) quickly snapped up the 21.35% share of Energias de Portugal (EDP) for 2.7 billion but reportedly committed in 2012 to remaining a minority shareholder.

中国三峡集团（CTG）迅速以27亿欧元收购了葡萄牙电力公司（EDP）21.35%的股份，但据报道，该三峡集团在2012年承诺只收购少量股份。

EURACTIV was informed that the CTG purchase was not notified to the European Commission and, as such, no assessment was carried out.

欧洲委员会获悉，三峡集团的收购行为没有向欧洲委员会通报，因此也没有对收购行为进行任何评估。

But the company is now pursuing a majority stake in EDP that, combined with shares owned by other state-owned enterprises (SOEs), would give China near full control of an EU country’s power system.

但该公司目前正在寻求葡萄牙电力公司的多数股权，再加上其他国有企业的股份，将使中国几乎完全控制一个欧盟国家的电力系统。

EDP is also a big player in renewable energy, as it is the majority owner of EDP Renewables, the world’s fourth largest wind energy producer, which aligns with China’s own impressive forays into clean energy.

葡萄牙电力公司在可再生能源领域也扮演着重要角色，因为它是全球第四大风能生产商EDP可再生能源集团的主要股东，该公司与中国在清洁能源领域的惊人尝试行为相一致。

CTG, which boasts one of the world’s largest dams among its assets, has already tabled an offer for the EDPR shares not controlled by EDP, meaning if its offer for the parent company is accepted, it would control both entities.

三峡集团夸耀在其资产中拥有世界上最大的水坝之一，该公司已经提出了一项收购EDP可再生能源集团股份的提议，该公司不受葡萄牙电力公司的控制，这意味着如果它对母公司的报价被接受，它将同时掌控这两个实体。

EDP is currently considering a third offer that sources say is in excess of 10 billion. The Portuguese government does not oppose the sale.

葡萄牙电力公司目前正在考虑第三次报价，据消息人士称，该报价超过了100亿欧元。葡萄牙政府并不反对出售行为。

If accepted, China would control the generation and distribution of Portugal’s power, as well as holding 25% of the management company that runs both the electricity and gas grids, Redes Energéticas Nacionais (REN), which is also held through a separate SOE.

如果被接受，中国将控制葡萄牙电力的产生和分配，同时持有电力和天然气电网的25%的管理权，葡萄牙国家电网（REN）也将被一个独立的国有企业所持有。

The Portuguese case comes at a portentous time for the EU, which is currently trying to broker an agreement between the Commission, Council and Parliament on investment screening, after France, Germany and Italy asked the EU executive to act in February 2017.

葡萄牙电网案例发生在欧盟的一个重要时刻。欧盟目前正试图在欧盟委员会、欧洲理事会和欧洲议会之间就投资筛选达成协议，此前法国、德国和意大利要求欧盟高管在2017年2月付诸执行。

Many European economies are concerned that if large-scale investments by third parties like China are not controlled, assets could be “looted”, according to French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire.

根据法国财政部长布鲁诺勒梅尔的说法，许多欧洲经济体担心，如果像中国这样的第三方的大规模投资得不到控制，资产可能会被“掠夺”。

Chinese SOEs already control significant stakes in the Italian power grids, British gas network and Greece’s grid operator. The Port of Piraeus is also partly controlled by another state-run outfit.

中国国有企业已经控制了意大利电网、英国天然气网络和希腊电网运营商的大量股份。比雷埃夫斯港也在一定程度上由另一家国营机构控制。

A source close to the issue told EURACTIV that China’s “discretion” was getting dangerous. “They are patient. In most cases, they buy initially a small share with an aim to increase it in the long run,” the source said.

一位知情人士告诉欧洲动态网，中国的“慎重”正在变得危险。“他们有耐心。在大多数情况下，他们最初只购买一小部分股票，目的是在长期内增加这一份额，”该消息人士称。

A first round of trilateral talks on investment screening kicked off on 10 July and EU trade boss Cecilia Malmström hopes for a final deal on the “priority file” before the end of the year.

第一轮关于投资筛选的三方会谈于7月10日开幕，欧盟贸易主席西莉亚•马姆斯特罗斯希望在今年年底前就“优先级文件”达成最终协议。

When amending the Commission’s proposal, which was published last September, the Parliament decided that if one-third of EU member states judge that an investment screening process affects their interests, their views must be taken into account by the country in question.

在去年9月公布的委员会提案中，议会决定，如果有三分之一的欧盟成员国认为投资筛选过程影响了他们的利益，那么他们的观点必须被当事国考虑进去。

In Portugal’s case, it is unlikely that other member states would trigger that option, given the isolated nature of the Iberian peninsula from the rest of Europe.

在葡萄牙这一案例中，考虑到伊比利亚半岛与欧洲其他国家的孤立性质，其他成员国不太可能触发这一选择。

EURACTIV understands that Italy, Germany and France are pushing for an investment screening deal while some Visegrad countries, the UK, Croatia and Cyprus have expressed reservations.

欧洲动态网了解到，意大利、德国和法国正在推动一项投资筛选协议，而一些中欧“维谢格拉德集团”国家、英国、克罗地亚和塞浦路斯则表达了保留意见。

Hungary’s Permanent Representation to the EU was asked to comment on the case but it declined to do so.

匈牙利常驻欧盟代表被要求就此案发表评论，但拒绝这么做。

Under Commission scrutiny

在委员会审查之下

Under its current investment policy instruments, the Commission does not assess individual FDI cases.

根据目前的投资政策工具，该委员会没有评估单个外国直接投资案例。

In a statement recently, Commissioner Malmström said that in its FDI proposal, the EU executive did not establish a country-by-country list of strategic sectors, but seeks to establish a coordination framework under which member states and the Commission may provide comments and opinions on FDI likely to affect security or public order.

最近在一份声明中，委员会委员玛姆斯托姆表示，在外国直接投资提议中，欧盟行政机构没有建立一个各国的战略领域清单，而是寻求建立一个协调框架，在这个框架下，成员国和欧盟委员会可以就可能影响安全或公共秩序的外国直接投资提供评论和意见。

EURACTIV asked about the role of the Commission, as coordinator of the bailout programmes, when it comes to privatisation of critical assets. Particularly, it asked whether the wider long-term political implications for the EU as a whole are considered when EU countries under bailout are forced to sell critical assets such as in the energy sector.

欧洲动态网询问了委员会作为救助计划的协调机构，其在关键资产私有化过程中的角色。它特别问道，当欧盟国家被迫出售诸如能源等行业的关键性资产时，欧盟整体的长期政治影响是否会被考虑。

A source said that from a programme perspective, the primary interest of privatisations – apart from improving the performance of SOEs and in this way reducing fiscal risks – was to reduce the financing needs of the state and to improve debt sustainability.

一名消息人士称，从项目的角度来看，私有化的主要利益——除了改善国有企业的表现，并以这种方式降低财政风险——是为了减少国家的融资需求，并改善债务的可持续性。

To the extent that relevant EU law was respected, programme partners did not have a mandate or the capacity to look into all the terms of privatisation procedures implemented during the programme period, the source explained.

该消息人士解释说，就目前欧盟相关法律受到的尊重程度而言，项目合作伙伴没有授权或有能力调查在该计划期间实施的所有私有化程序。

As for the strategy to purchase a small number of shares and then expand gradually to full takeover, the same source noted that the Commission had to approve acquisitions of control under the EU merger regulation when the companies involved meet certain thresholds.

至于购买少量股份，然后逐渐扩大到全面接管的策略，同样的消息来源指出，当涉及的公司达到一定的门槛时，欧盟委员会必须批准将收购控制权的过程置于欧盟并购监管之下。

“Those thresholds are based on the turnover of the companies involved and ensure that only deals of a certain size have to be notified and approved. The requirement to obtain Commission approval applies regardless of the sector and regardless of the nationality of the acquirer. It therefore also applies to acquisitions by Chinese SOEs in the energy sector,” the source said.

“这些门槛是基于所涉及的公司的营业额，并确保只有特定规模的交易必须得到通知和批准。无论该行业如何，无论收购方的国籍如何，申请获得委员会批准的要求一律适用。因此，它也适用于中国国有企业在能源领域的收购，”该消息人士称。

The same source added that although acquisitions of control had to be approved, acquisitions of a non-controlling stake in a company do not have to be notified and approved to the Commission.

同一消息来源补充说，虽然收购控制权必须得到批准，但收购一家公司的非控股股权并不一定要得到通知，也不需要得到委员会的批准。

“However, this does not mean the EU Merger Regulation can be circumvented by acquiring a company gradually, through purchases of a small number of shares.”

“然而，这并不意味着欧盟的并购监管能通过购买少量股份，再逐步收购一家公司来规避。”

If a company first acquires a non-controlling stake and then later increases its stake to a level where it can exercise control, the acquisition of the additional stake will trigger a review under the EU Merger Regulation. This also applies to Chinese SOEs.”

如果一家公司首先获得非控股股权，然后将其持股比例提高到可以行使控制权的水平，那么收购额外股份将引发欧盟合并监管下的审查。这也适用于中国国有企业。”

“In other words, if a Chinese SOE were to first acquire a non-controlling stake, this would not be notifiable. But as soon as the stake is increased to a level where the Chinese SOE acquires control, the acquisition would have to be notified and approved by the Commission,” the source concluded.

“换句话说，如果中国国企首先获得非控股股权，这将无需被通知。但一旦持股比例提高到中国国企获得控制权的水平，收购就必须得到欧盟委员会的通知和批准。”消息人士总结称。

What the EU Parliament says

欧盟议会怎么说

On 20 March 2017, ten MEPs from the European Peoples’ Party (EPP) put forward a proposal for a Union act on the Screening of Foreign Investment in Strategic Sectors.

2017年3月20日，来自欧洲人民党的10名欧洲议会议员（EPP）提出了一项关于在战略领域筛选外国投资的联合法案的提案。

Swedish MEP Christofer Fjellner (EPP) told EURACTIV that electricity and gas infrastructure had to be considered critical EU infrastructure, and it ought to be protected by the investment screening mechanism.

瑞典MEP christf Fjellner（EPP）告诉欧洲动态网，电力和天然气基础设施必须被认为是关键的欧盟基础设施，它应该受到投资审查机制的保护。

“I think the issue should be addressed at the upcoming EU-China Summit. However, I believe that a much bigger problem is Gazprom, Nord Stream and the dependence of Russian gas,” he added.
For Portuguese MEP Marisa Matias from GUE-NGL, there is no argument that European stockholders are better than Chinese ones.

他说：“我认为，在即将举行的中欧峰会上，这个问题应该得到解决。然而，我认为一个更大的问题是俄罗斯天然气工业公司、北溪天然气管道以及俄罗斯天然气的依赖，”他补充说。对于葡萄牙人来说，欧洲的股东比中国的股东更好，这一点毋庸置疑。

She added that the government does not make its position clear regarding the issue but explained that it does not want to make it public again.

她补充说，政府在这个问题上没有明确立场，但解释说，它不想再次公开这一问题。

“The Portuguese state owns no stock in EDP. The company was completely privatised and has no public capital and very few Portuguese (or European) institutional stockholders. 35% of the stock was dispersed which makes it very easy for the Chinese to achieve a dominant position,” she said.

“葡萄牙政府在葡萄牙电力公司中没有任何股份。该公司完全私有化，没有公共资本，很少有葡萄牙（或欧洲）机构股东。她说：“35%的股票被分散了，这使得中国人很容易就能占据主导地位。”

According to Matias, the company has always been a very profitable, even when it was public but prices have soared since it was privatised.

根据马蒂亚斯的说法，该公司一直都是盈利的，即使在它集体所有的期间，但自从私有化以来，价格已经飙升。

“Our proposal (Bloco de Esquerda) is to nationalise the company. We have also been making proposals to end various rentist conditions that EDP benefits from, at the expense of taxpayers and consumers,” she concluded.

“我们的提议（葡萄牙左翼集团）是将公司国有化。我们也一直在提议，终结葡萄牙电力公司以牺牲纳税人和消费者的利益为代价而从中获益的经济条件”她总结道。

[–]In_der_Tat 
The EU's busy attacking windmills instead of focusing on actual threats.

欧盟忙于攻击风车，而不是把注意力集中在实际的威胁上。

[–]CanadaConvenientSprinkles 
What threats?

什么威胁？

[–]CanadaConvenientSprinkles 
I see, the problem is ideologically dressed-up xenophobia. Not really a threat in my opinion.

我明白了，问题是意识形态上的仇外心理。在我看来，这并不是真正的威胁。

[–]CanadaConvenientSprinkles 
Of course China is a democracy. Don't you know anything? And I never said it's not authoritarian. You should work on your comprehensive reading skills. Not that the government form were in any way relevant, except as excuse for your sinophobia. There is no threat. Only in your head.

当然，中国是一个民主国家。难道你不知道吗？我从没说过它是不好的国家。你应该学习你的综合阅读技巧。这并不是说和政府的形式有什么关系，只是作为你们的“恐华症”的借口。没有威胁。威胁只存在于你的脑海中。

[–]Lubusz (Poland)k890 
To be fair, same problem have Moldavia where Russians take control over their power grid. When there is a risk for decision what could hit russian interests, then major power plants are shutdown for "emergency repair". Are you sure that in future, nobody in China use it against government in Lisbon?

公平地说，同样的问题也发生在摩尔多瓦（译注：罗马尼亚地名），俄罗斯人控制着他们的电网。当出现可能影响俄罗斯利益的决策风险时，主要的发电厂将被关闭，以进行“紧急修复”。你是否确信在未来，中国没有人会用同样的手段来对付里斯本的政府？

[–]somegoblinasshat 
Honestly, China is a bit far from Portugal so it doesn't influence as directly as Russia does Moldova

老实说，中国离葡萄牙有点远，所以它不会像俄罗斯直接影响到摩尔多瓦那样影响葡萄牙

[–]PierligBouloven [] 
Lisbon is part of the EU, which can interact with China through trades and sanctions. So, Portugal has a way to interact with China, and it is going to lose part of its sovereignety by exporting the management of their own power grid.
It's economic colonialism 101

里斯本是欧盟的一部分，后者能通过贸易和制裁与中国进行互动。因此，葡萄牙有一种与中国互动的方式，它将通过出卖自己的电网管理丧失部分主权。
这是经济殖民主义，呵呵

[–]Throwmyhotdog 
Considering how much renewable energy china will bring to them it's a win win for all.

考虑到中国将给他们带来多少可再生能源，这对所有人来说都是一场双赢。

[–]Chinaliuruixingqqaz 
I don’t think a democratic regime is any better on this matter. After all, Portuguese people have no say on the President of the United States, despite the latter being a democracy.
If a foreign power have control of your lifeline, they could screw you up pretty royally, democratically or despotically.

我不认为民主政体在这件事上有任何更好的表现。毕竟，葡萄牙人对美国总统没有发言权，尽管后者是一个民主国家。
如果一个外国势力掌控了你的生命线，他们就能冠冕堂皇地把你按在地上摩擦，以民主的方式或非民主的方式皆可。

[–]yabn5  
How about China allows a western company to buy and fully own a piece of Chinese infrastructure.

假如是中国允许西方企业购买并完全拥有一片中国的基础设施会怎么样。

[–]EU wannabezenicaone
"windmills" being?

“风车”是什么梗？

[–]almofariz 
I don't know what exactly is being referred to, but here's some cultural context.

我不知道具体指的是什么，但这里有一些文化背景。（译注：唐•吉诃德战风车的梗）

[–]IrelandSpoonshape 
Perfidious foreigners coming in and buying up our utilities because somehow that is a threat to us.
It's just another company - in fact they will probably be more careful to deal decently with their customers since it would be so easy to paint them as foreign plunderers

背信弃义的外国人过来并购买我们的公共事业资产，因为这对我们是一种威胁。
这只是另一家公司——事实上，他们可能会更加谨慎地体面地对待他们的客户，因为客户很容易把他们描绘成外国的掠夺者。

[–]juntodez 
And this has fundamentally worsen the quality of energy service in Portugal, particularly in remote areas. Add to that the danger to national security, and this is just obscene.

而且这从根本上降低了葡萄牙的能源服务质量，尤其是在偏远地区。再加上对国家安全的威胁，令人很不爽。

[–]giorgiga 
danger to national security,
I fail to see how EDP shares being owned by foreign entities can pose a threat to national security - can you elaborate please?

“对国家安全的威胁”
我没看到葡萄牙电力公司的股份被能对国家安全构成威胁的外国实体所拥有——你能详细说明一下吗？

[–]juntodez 
China doesn't have to willfully desire to harm Portugal. By simply wishing to make more money, they may not make necessary investments in infrastructure, which will in time harm the country.
If the energy market in Portugal had many competing faces, this would not be an issue, but EDP IS the market.

中国不需要故意伤害葡萄牙。因为他们只是希望赚更多的钱，他们可能不会对基础设施进行必要的投资，这将对葡萄牙造成伤害。如果葡萄牙的能源市场有许多相互竞争的面孔，这就不是一个问题了，但葡萄牙电力公司是市场。

[–]United States of AmericaMerlinsBeard 
Lets say a company owned by the Trump family was poised to control a majority of the Portuguese power grid....
Would you feel the same way? I mean, it's not a stretch to say that Trump would/could use that as decisive leverage to force the Portuguese government to embark on highly disadvantageous negotiations with the Trump administration, no?

假设特朗普家族拥有的一家公司准备控制大部分的葡萄牙电网……
你会有同样的感觉吗？我的意思是，说特朗普会利用这一点作为决定性的筹码，迫使葡萄牙政府与特朗普政府展开高度不利的谈判，这并不是一种延伸解读，不是吗？

[–]OnEarth2000 
In Portugal I am sure there is a standard and quality of service must be maintain for public utilities right? CTG or any companies operating these utilities must adhere to them else they can be fine or sued.
As for national security, I am sure Portugal will have no problem whatsoever to nationalize the power grid when needed if problem arises.
There is nothing for CTG or China to gain by undermining Portugal's national security with the operation of the power grid, but much to gain if they can operate it successfully. With the successful operation of Portugal's power grid it will allows CTG to get more such operations somewhere else.

在葡萄牙，我确信公共设施必须有其标准和服务质量，对吧？中国三峡集团或任何运营这些公用设施的企业必须遵守这些规定，否则可能会被罚款或起诉。
至于国家安全问题，我相信，如果出现问题，那么葡萄牙将电网收归国有将不会有任何问题。
对于中国三峡集团或中国来说，通过操纵电网破坏葡萄牙的国家安全没有什么好处，但如果他们能够成功运行电网，就会有很多好处。随着葡萄牙电网的成功运行，它将允许中国三峡集团在其他地方获得更多类似的业务。

[–]IrelandSpoonshape 
I suspect the Chinese company is more interested in the chance to spread their risk out of China in case the bubble burst there than anything else.

我怀疑，这家中国公司更感兴趣的是，有机会将风险分散到中国之外，以防泡沫破裂。

[–]professorMaDLib  
CTG is state owned, so I'm less certain that this too concerning for them since they can be bailed out. That said they've been known to invest in other countries and already have a 21.35% interest in EDP. Still the fact that CTG is state owned means the Chinese Government could control a majority stake in Portugal's energy grid.

三峡集团是国有企业，所以我不太确定这对他们来说是否过于多心，因为他们能得到国家兜底。也就是说，大家都知道他们已经在其他国家进行了投资，并且已经有了21.35%的葡萄牙电力公司股份。但三峡集团是国有企业这一事实，仍然意味着中国政府可以控制葡萄牙能源网的多数股权。

[–]Italythatguyfromb4 
If the Portugeuse state elevated standards too high I'm sure China would have no problem suing them for going against EU competition laws.
After the EU literally sold out the Portugeuse power grid I wouldn't put it past them to rule in favour of China.

如果葡萄牙的国家标准太高，我敢肯定中国会因为违反欧盟竞争法而起诉他们。
在欧盟真正出卖了葡萄牙的电网之后，我不会把它交给他们管理以支持中国。

[–]professorMaDLib
I wonder what r/portugal thinks of this. This news was posted there but I can't read Portuguese. I don't really think China would actively harm Portgugal's Power Grid. It would look really bad in terms of international relations and fuel distrust of Chinese infrastructure projects in other nations, which is important since they're really into doing that right now. That said the very fact that a foreign nation could own a majority stake on the power grid is extremely unsettling, no matter which nation. Long term who knows what the CTG might do when China's foreign policy changes.
More importantly I think this is an important way for them to establish influence in Europe, which they have been doing for a long time. Worst case scenario, they can threaten Portugal's grid directly, but more rational actions like investing in their power grid and building power infrastructures for lower costs can also dramatically alter the Portuguese Perception of the Chinese State, possibly enough to make them realign.

我想知道葡萄牙是怎么想的。这条新闻被贴在那里，但我看不懂葡萄牙语。我真地认为中国不会主动地破害葡萄牙的电网。从国际关系的角度来看，这么做将非常糟糕，并加剧人们对中国在其他国家的基础设施项目的不信任。这一点很重要，因为他们现在真地很乐于在别国搞基建。话虽如此，但一个外国能拥有电网的多数股权这一事实，是非常令人不安的，无论哪个国家。长期来看，谁知道当中国的外交政策发生变化时，三峡集团会干什么？
更重要的是，我认为这是他们在欧洲建立影响力的一种重要方式——他们已经做了很长时间。最坏的情况是，它们可能直接威胁葡萄牙的电网，但更理性的行动，如投资于本国的电网，以更低的成本建设电力基础设施，也可能戏剧性地改变葡萄牙人对中国政府的看法，可能足以让他们重新结盟。

[–]cissoniuss 
In 2011, Portugal’s government was required to sell its stake in the country’s power grids as part of the terms of its 78 billion bailout programme, organized by the European Commission and International Monetary Fund.
China is set to make further inroads into European infrastructure, as a state-owned company attempts to gain full control of Portugal’s power grid.
EU should block this stuff. If we want private companies to run infrastructure, at least make sure those companies are not actually owned by another state. This is also unfair competition for the private companies that would want to bid on this.

2011年，葡萄牙政府被要求出售其国家电网股份，作为其780亿欧元救市计划的一部分。该计划由欧盟委员会和国际货币基金组织组织实施。
随着一家国有企业试图获得葡萄牙电网的完全控制权，中国将进一步进军欧洲基础设施领域。
欧盟应该阻止这种事。如果我们想让私营企业运营基础设施，至少要确保这些公司实际上不是另一个国家的国企。让别国国企参与也是对那些想要竞标的私营公司的不公平竞争。

[–]pm_me_bellies_789
Electricity prices would be though the roof. Infrastructure should be owned an maintained by the people, not private companies.

电价会飙起来的。基础设施应该由人民维护和拥有，而不是私营企业。

[–]The Netherlandsarcticwolffox 
Once again, Wolfgang Schäuble and the Eurogroup shooting themselves in the foot with a machine gun. See also: China buying the port of Piraeus from Greece.

又一次，沃尔夫冈•朔伊布勒（译注：德国财政部长）和欧洲集团搬起石头砸了自己的脚。另见：中国从希腊收购比雷埃夫斯港口。

[–]Lesser Poland (Poland)PositionalBleakness 
Didn't we learn after communism fell in our countries? Everything was sold off. Look at what happened to the Russians, they were plundered for everything they had.

我们难道没有吸取GC主义在我们国家垮台后的那些教训吗？所有的东西都被卖掉了，看看俄国人的遭遇，他们手中的一切都被掠夺了。

[–]Falkland Islands (formerly banned for "pushing my agenda")prezTrump 
How so? They won't suffer the consequences of their ideological decisions. It's easy to shoot someone else's foot and in the meantime German banks get their payments for a while longer.

所以如何？他们不会受到意识形态决策的影响。搬石头砸别人的脚很容易，并且与此同时，德国的银行也能在一段时间内得到支付。

[–]GermanyAlcobob 
Again this stupid "German banks" bullshit.
German banks were way behind Swiss and French banks in terms of investments in Greece before the crisis.

又是这个愚蠢的关于“德国银行”的扯淡。
在危机爆发前，德国各银行在对希腊的投资方面远远落后于瑞士和法国的银行。

[–]Falkland Islands (formerly banned for "pushing my agenda")prezTrump 
Yep but Wolfgang isn't French, so the assumption of motivation isn't there.

是的，但是沃尔夫冈不是法国人，所以你不能假设他也有那个动机。

[–]GermanyAlcobob 
Then why do you bring up German banks? Because the money Germany invested into Greece, would have bailed out the German banks multiple times.
German banks "only" had the 3rd most investments in Greece, yet Germany is guaranteeing the most money of all countries.
If Schäuble is such an asshole as you claim to be, then he wouldn't have agreed to the Greek bond swap / bailout.
Like usual, any time people can bash Germany they take it, even if they know nothing about the issue at hand.
We let refugees/migrants in to lessen the pressure on the South? : Germany is inviting terrorists.
We don't let migrants/refugees in cause we are technically not responsible for them: Germany sacrifices the South.
Do or don't, if there is any chance to bash Germany, the same people will take it no matter what happens.

那你为什么要提德国银行呢？因为德国投资希腊的钱，本可以用来救助德国自己的银行好多次。
德国银行在希腊的投资“仅”居第三位，然而德国为所有国家提供的担保最多。
如果沃尔夫冈像你宣称的那样是一个混蛋，那么他就不会同意希腊的债券互换/救助计划。
像往常一样，只要有人能抨击德国，他们就会认同，即使他们对眼前的问题一无所知。
我们放进难民/移民，以减少对南欧的压力？——结论：德国正在邀请恐怖分子进入欧洲。
我们不让移民和难民进入，因为严格来讲我们无需对他们负责。——结论：德国牺牲了南欧。
无论德国怎么做，不管发生什么，如果有机会抨击德国，同样的那群人都会认同。

[–]feox 
You have to look at total exposure to all sovereign debt in case of a domino effect (greek, spanish, italian, irish, french, etc.) to understand the situation.

如果出现多米诺骨牌效应（希腊、西班牙、意大利、爱尔兰、法国等），你必须考虑所有主权债务的风险敞口，以搞清形势。

[–]PortugalmasterOfLetecia 
They should atleast let privates buy into it, the power company in Portugal is a gold mine, a De facto monopoly is in place and they can just set whatever price they want.

他们至少应该让私人企业购买股权，葡萄牙的电力公司是一个金矿，事实上的垄断已经形成，并且他们能设定任何他们想要的价格。

[–]Europehtxgivven 
they can just set whatever price they want
Not really.

“他们能设定任何他们想要的价格”
也不见得。

[–]IrelandSpoonshape  
Government can set a limit on what is allowed to be charged at a reasonable level. Worst case they threaten to nationalize it (or actually do that).

政府可以对允许在合理水平上收取的费用设定一个价格限制。最坏的情况是，他们威胁要将其国有化（或者真地这么做了）

[–]bora_la_pensar 
Think on it, you are selling your fucking power grid and power supply to private entities. How insane is that? It should be fully publicly controlled, its essential infrastructure.

想想看，你正在把你的电力网和电力供应卖给私人实体。这有多疯狂？电力系统应该是完全集体所有的，它是必要的基础设施。

[–]CanadaConvenientSprinkles  
If we want private companies to run infrastructure, at least make sure those companies are not actually owned by another state.
Do you have any idea how much infrastructure is government-owned in Europe? What you demand is impossible.

“如果我们想让私营企业运营基础设施，至少要确保这些公司实际上不是另一个国家的国企”
你知道在欧洲有多少基础设施是政府所有的吗？你的要求是不现实的。

[–]cissoniuss 
I am not demanding them selling it. I am saying that if you ask a government to sell its stake in something, it should be to a private company and not being bought by a company that is subsidized by another government since that is unfair competition.
For vital infrastructure like power grids, I rather have it be run by the country itself actually.

我并不是要求他们卖掉电网。我想说的是，如果你要求政府出售所持股份，对象应该是一家私营公司，而不是被另一家受到本国政府补贴的公司收购，因为这是不公平竞争。
对于像电网这样的重要基础设施，我更希望让它由自己的国家来运营。

[–]Sampo  
EU should block this stuff.
I hope EU could block countries from taking so much dept that they end up needing bailouts.

“欧盟应该阻止这种事”
我希望欧盟能阻止各国借下如此多的债务，以至于它们最终都需要靠救助。

[–]blackgreen1  
at this rate europe destiny is either still being controlled by the americans or be controlled by the chinese
bravo

按照这个速度发展下去，欧洲的命运要么仍然被美国人掌控，要么被中国掌控
爽歪歪

[–]zefo_dias
Troika forced the state to sell the grid (among many other things we've been forced to sell since the 90's).
If the eu had a problem with the buyer, they should have stepped in and equaled their offer.

“三驾马车”迫使政府出售电网（这是自90年代以来我们被迫出售的许多东西之一）。
如果欧盟认为买家有问题，那他们就应该介入，并出与买家相同的报价。

[–]PolandMaichin_Civire   
If I'm reading this right, Portugal was forced to sell its grid.
Chinese company bought it, which means they paid the most. How is it anyones fault, but EU?

如果我没有读错，葡萄牙是被迫出售它的电网的。
中国公司买下了它，这意味着他们付了最多的钱。这怎么就变成了谁谁谁的错（除了欧萌）？ 

[–]Tutankhramen 
We are so naive...

我们太天真了……

[–]Italythatguyfromb4 
Well, its the IMF too.
But yeah, its definitely the EU's fault too. Its ridiculous.

好吧，这也是国际货币基金组织的错。
但是，没错，这肯定也是欧盟的错。太荒谬了。

[–]feox   
Berlin's fault much more than the EU.

柏林的错误远比欧盟更严重。

[–]Germanyniknarcotic 
It's the fault of anyone who spews nonsense and thinks austerity measures are a good thing. Sadly those people are in power and my countrymen gave Schäuble enough votes to implement that shit.

这是那些瞎扯淡，并认为紧缩措施是一件好事的人的错。可悲的是，这些人掌权了，我的同胞们给了沃尔夫冈足够多的选票来实施这一狗屁措施。

[–]blablabl 
Eduardo catroga, who made the Psd party plan for its mandate in the government, was given a position in the new EDP administration after the buyout. This plan included the Portuguese companies being sold.
While corruption cannot be proven because I am not the police or a judge, it can't be ruled out.
At least a conflict of interest existed. And a person with no experience or knowledge in the energy sector was offered a job in the new administration of the company he helped sell.
It's not about race, or the pure white Europeans, whatever that means, amongst the several misconceptions this phrase is based upon. It's about a shady deal

爱德华多•卡特罗加在葡萄牙电网被收购后，获得了新的西班牙电力公司管理层的职位。爱德华多凭借其在政府中的授权而为葡萄牙领先联盟制定了计划，该计划包括出售葡萄牙公司。
因为我不是警察，也不是法官，所以无法证明有没有腐败，但也不能排除。
至少存在着利益冲突。一个在能源领域没有经验或知识的人得到了一份在他帮助下出售的公司的新管理层的职位。
在你说的这个短语所基于的几个误解中，这不是关于种族，或者什么纯洁的欧洲白人，不管这意味着什么。这是一桩见不得人的交易。

[–]Lesser Poland (Poland)PositionalBleakness  
It's always race with Americans. I don't want Russians controlling the grids either.

中国总是和美国人比赛。我也不希望俄国人控制电网。

[–]Nocturnal-Goose 
Damnit. The plan was always to have Germany buy it.

该死的。解决方案总是“让德国人买下它”。

[–]joejerryronnie  
Serious question - what percentage of Europeans are really ok with leaning into a relationship with China? I understand the outrage at Trump but getting into bed with China is a dangerous game. And they play by very different rules.

问个严肃的问题——有多少比例的欧洲人真地同意与中国建立关系？我理解特朗普的愤怒，但与中国上床是一场危险的游戏。并且他们的游戏规则非常不同。

[–]moin mointanteoma 
The last two words of the title answers your question. Europeans don't want to rely on America, or China, or anyone else. Yet at the same time, nobody in Europe steps up so basically everybody just grumbles a little and life goes on.

标题的最后两个字回答了你的问题。欧洲人不希望依赖美国、中国或其他任何国家。但与此同时，欧洲也没有谁挺身而出解决问题，所以基本上大家都只是抱怨几句，然后日子该咋过咋过。

[–]PhantomRacer 
In 2011, Portugal’s government was required to sell its stake in the country’s power grids as part of the terms of its 78 billion bailout programme, organised by the European Commission and International Monetary Fund.
Portugal didn't have much choice. China saw the opportunity and went for it. Poor long term planning from the EU.

“2011年，葡萄牙政府被要求出售其国家电网股份，作为其780亿欧元救市计划的一部分。该计划由欧盟委员会和国际货币基金组织组织实施”
葡萄牙没有太多选择。中国看到了这个机会，并为此而去了。这是欧盟垃圾的长期规划的结果。

[–]edneil  
I think 'poor' is putting it rather mildly. Try 'fucking terrible'
Yes, sell off your national power grid to China of all places. What could POSSIBLY go wrong.

我认为“垃圾”这个词说得太温和了。应该用“太tm惨不忍睹”
是的，把你们的国家电网统统卖给了中国。能有什么问题呢。

[–]Fit-Man 
Not much could go wrong, China's very reliable when it comes to infrastructure maintenance.

不会有什么问题的，在基础设施维护方面，中国是非常可靠的。

[–]AdamLennon   
The long term plan by the EU is to have it all handed to Germany. Germany won't mind sharing their lands with like minded nations such as China and Russia.

欧盟的长期计划就是把一切都交给德国。而德国不会介意与中国和俄罗斯等志同道合的国家分享自己的土地。

[–]DeadAssociate  
Pretty poor planning as the dutch own over a quarter of the electricity transmission network in germany. 

是的，这是一个相当糟糕的计划，因为在德国，荷兰拥有超过四分之一的电力传输网络。

[–]Al_Rhundi  
To think Portugal used to be one of the wealthiest most powerful countries

想一下，葡萄牙曾经是世界上最富有最强大的国家之一

[–]b-b-but_what_about_ 
To think Mongolia used to be one of the wealthiest most powerful countries
Don't fuck with China.

想一下，蒙古曾经是世界上最富有最强大的国家之一
不要和中国tmd扯上关系。

[–]Cfwydirk  
Thats what you get when the International Monetary Fund bail you out.

这就
是国际货币基金组织为你纾困时你所得到的结果。

[–]Luffydude
Portuguese here, both me and my friends agree that there's probably nothing that anyone can do to rape the people more than EDP did, so for us this might actually be an improvement

我是葡萄牙人，我和我的朋友都认为没有谁能比葡萄牙电力公司更能强jian人民了，所以对我们来说，把电网卖给中国人也许是一种进步

[–]zippy72 [] 
I’m still an EDP customer but I don’t believe monopolies are ever a good idea, especially when a foreign country owns them.

我仍然是葡萄牙电力公司的客户，但我不认为垄断是一个好主意，尤其是当某个外国拥有它们的时候。

[–]b-b-but_what_about_ 
Of course not, you stupid laowai.

当然不是好主意，你们这些愚蠢的老外。

[–]OswaldDingleheimer 

哈哈 外国人多很胖

[–]Boilem 
Portuguese here, we didn't really have a choice in the matter. On the upside, the company is still subject to Portuguese and European law so there probably won't be too much outrageous shit going on.

我是葡萄牙人，我们在这件事上真地没有选择。有利的一面是，该公司仍受制于葡萄牙和欧洲的法律，因此可能不会有太多令人难以容忍的事情发生。

[–]real_sadboi 
Poortugal

穷鬼葡萄牙

[–]privacypolicy12345   
Europe and IMF forces Portugal to sell its power grid. China buys it. Master level villainy there.

欧洲和国际货币基金组织迫使葡萄牙卖掉其电网。而中国买了下来。真是大师级别恶行。
​