西方情报机构警告称，中国在新西兰的影响力正处于“临界”级别 [美国媒体]

Western intelligence is warning thatChinese influence in New Zealand is at a 'critical' level

西方情报机构警告称，中国在新西兰的影响力正处于“临界”级别

1、Beijing’s growinginfluence in Asia is worrying neighbours and their partners around the world.
2、Western countriesare acutely concerned about China’s links to New Zealand.
3、According to areport, China’s presence in New Zealand could compromise the Five Eyespartnership.

1、北京在亚洲日益增长的影响力令邻国及其全球合作伙伴感到担忧。
2、西方国家非常关注中国与新西兰的关系。
3、据报道，中国在新西兰的存在可能会损害“五眼联盟”合作关系。

Countries around Asia and their partnersare increasingly concerned about China’s growing influence, and members of theFive Eyes partnership – the US, UK, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand – areconcerned about Beijing’s growing influence in New Zealand, according to areport published in May by Canada’s Security Intelligence Service.

加拿大安全情报部门5月发布的一份报告称：亚洲各国和中国的合作伙伴们越来越担心中国日益增长的影响力，“五眼联盟”的成员——美国、英国、加拿大、澳大利亚和新西兰也担心北京在新西兰日益增长的影响力。



Some of these efforts are direct threats tonational security, according to the report, while others pose long-term risksto free society, including limiting the rights for the ethnic Chinesecommunity, quashing public debate about China, and corrupting the politicalsystem.

报告称，其中一些举措对国家安全构成了直接威胁，而另一些举措则对自由社会构成了长期风险，包括限制华人社区的权利、平息公众对中国的辩论以及fu败政治体系。

Governments in New Zealand have courtedChina for some time, first to balance Soviet influence and secure aid, andlater to diversify Wellington’s international relationships. New Zealand wasthe first Western country to sign on to China’s massiveinternational-development project, the Belt and Road Initiative.

新西兰政府向中国示好已有一段时间，起初是为了平衡苏联的影响力和获得援助，然后是为了使惠灵顿的国际关系多样化。新西兰是第一个签署中国大规模国际发展项目“一带一路”计划的西方国家。

The previous government in Wellington alsoworked to avoid offending China and develop links with Chinese Community Partyleaders – which, the report says, “fed and encouraged the success of China’spolitical influence activities in New Zealand.”

惠灵顿的上届政府还努力避免得罪中国，并与中国社区党的领导人建立联系——报告称，这“助长并鼓励了中国在新西兰政治影响力活动的成功”。



Concern that New Zealand has beencompromised by Chinese influence has led some to question whether it can remainin the Five Eyes club.

由于担心中国对新西兰的影响力，一些人开始质疑新西兰能否留在“五眼”俱乐部。

“In New Zealand, both the last primeminister, Bill English, and [current Prime Minister] Jacinda Ardern, havedenied that there’s a problem at all, ” Peter Mattis, a former CIA expert onChina,told the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission in April.Mattis also said a major fundraiser for the current government was linked toChina’s “United Front” influence-building work.

“在新西兰，上一任总理比尔•英格里什和（现任总理）雅辛达•阿德恩都否认存在任何问题，”前中央情报局中国问题专家彼得•马蒂斯今年4月对美中经济与安全审议委员会表示。马蒂斯还说，现任政府的一项主要筹款活动与中国“统一战线”的影响力建设工作有关。

“I think that at some level the Five Eyes,or the Four Eyes, need to have a discussion about whether or not New Zealandcan remain given this problem with the political core,” said Mattis, who is nowa fellow at The Jamestown Foundation. “It needs to be put in those terms sothat New Zealand’s government understands that the consequences are substantialfor not thinking through and addressing some of the problems that they face.”

“我认为，在某种程度上，‘五眼联盟’，或者说‘四眼联盟’，需要讨论一下，鉴于这个政治核心问题，新西兰能否继续存在下去，”现在是詹姆斯敦基金会研究员的马蒂斯说。“需要把问题置于这些条款之中，这样新西兰政府才能明白，如果不考虑和解决它们面临的一些问题，后果将是巨大的。”



Experts in New Zealand said a rising powerlike China should be expected to seek more influence abroad and that Wellingtonshould be responsive to Washington’s concerns – but they also cautioned againstletting New Zealand be cast in a Cold War-style conflict with China that someUS officials seem interested in creating.

新西兰专家表示，像中国这样的一个崛起的大国在国外寻求更大的影响力应当是意料之中的，惠灵顿应该回应华盛顿的担忧——但他们还警告称，不要让新西兰陷入与中国的冷战式冲突，一些美国官员似乎有意制造这种冲突。

“For a small state like New Zealand … itcan often be a challenge as to how to defend the country against foreignpolitical interference,” the CSIS report concludes. “It takes the politicalwill of the government of the day and popular support to do so. If New Zealandcan find a way to better manage its economic and political relationship withthe PRC, it could become a model to other Western states.”

国际战略研究中心的报告总结道:“对于像新西兰这样的小国来说，如何保护国家不受外国政治干预常常是一个挑战。”这需要当时政府的政治意愿和民众的支持。如果新西兰能找到更好地管理与中国的经济和政治关系的方法，它就可能成为其他西方国家的榜样。


[–]NewZealanders4Trump 6 11
So given National and Labour both arealready in the pocket (and likely the Greens and NZF as well), what can bedone?
(Civil Defense tag lol)

那么，考虑到国家和工党都已经在口袋里了（绿党和NZF也可能在口袋里），我们能做些什么呢？
（公民护身符，呵呵）

[–]computer_d[S] 31 11
Greens have spoken out against it.
Not that it counts for much. I'm at a lossand just can't get over how Labour and National are OK with this and won'tinvestigate. Like how the fuck does this happen. Ardern has zero excuse, she'smeant to be the poster-child of decency.
Least I can make funnies with the tag eh.

绿党已经公开表示反对。
这并不重要。我不知所措，无法理解工党和国家党如何能接受这一点，也不会去调查。这tmd是怎么发生的。阿德恩没有任何借口，她注定是正派的典范。
至少我可以用这个护身符来搞笑，呃。



[–]Go_Cuthulu_Go -4 6
Sure, what we need is some racist retardlike Trump, right?

当然，我们需要的是像特朗普这样的种族主义者，对吧？

[–]GandalfsBottomFluff 1 2
orange man bad!

那个橙色头发的坏家伙！

[–]bobdaktari 75 10
New Zealand’s friends and allies can helpNew Zealand, and other vulnerable small states, by looking to ways to partnereconomically. In so doing they will help to lessen the pull of having to makepolitical concessions to the PRC for economic benefit, which was the Faustianchoice made by the last New Zealand government.
who are our friends and allies in this -the US who won't entertain a free trade deal with us, nor give exemptions totarriffs and has a long history of pretty much ignoring us except when it suits...Australia who is busy deporting any kiwi it can and seems politically morefucked than usual... Britain whose just fucked for the foreseeable future...Canada? Europe?
there are no easy nor obvious choices forNZ as a nation.... we do need to put pressure on our political and business"elites" to stop blinding pandering to China or at least betransparent about it.... but we also know where there's money these fuckerswill sell us down the river, cheap

新西兰的朋友和盟友可以通过寻求经济合作伙伴的方式帮助新西兰和其他脆弱的小国。这样做将有助于减轻为经济利益而向中国作出政治让步的吸引力，这是上届新西兰政府做出的浮士德式选择。

在这一点上，谁是我们的朋友和盟友——美国不会与我们达成自由贸易协定，也不会豁免关税，而且在很长一段时间里，除了在合适的时候，它几乎完全无视我们……澳大利亚正忙于驱逐任何可能的新西兰人，而且在政治上似乎比平时更加cao蛋……英国在可预见的未来内更cao蛋……加拿大？欧洲？

对新西兰来说，不存在简单的和明显的选择……我们确实需要向我们的政治和商业“精英”施压，要求他们停止盲目迎合中国，或者至少在这方面保持透明……但我们也知道哪里有钱，这些混蛋会为了利益而出卖我们

[–]computer_d[S] 21 10
Yeah, I agree that we're in a difficultposition. It's funny because for years I've been lamenting our relationshipwith the States and yet now I'm thinking they're the lesser of two evils.

是的，我同意我们现在的处境很困难。这很有趣，因为多年来我一直在哀叹我们与美国的关系，但现在我认为他们是两害相权取其轻。



[–]bobdaktari -1 9
theres good reason so many Americans don'tvote... :)

那么多美国人不投票有有很重要的理由的……:)

[–]Go_Cuthulu_Go 3 6
Yes, they fall for the same bullshit youdid.

是的，他们也会和你一样被你的屁话所骗。

[–]king_john651 2 6
It's a bit of a shame that we being so damnsmall that we don't really have a choice. Plus siding with the US is pseudosiding with Russia if one day they just accept the interference

我们是如此的小，以至于我们真的没有选择的余地，这有点可惜。此外，如果有一天俄罗斯接受美国的干涉，那么与美国站在一起就是站在俄罗斯一边

[–]neopopulist 38 9
China is a self described "where thereare Chinese, that is China" ethno-state. America is not.
China is a dictatorship whereas America isa democracy. Trump can be voted out, Xi Jinping cannot.
China is expanding the borders of itsempire (currently South China Sea.) America is not.

中国是一个自称“有中国人的地方，那就是中国”的民族国家。美国不是。
中国是不好国家，而美国是民主国家。特朗普可以被投票淘汰，中国不能。
中国正在扩大其帝国的疆界（目前是南中国海）。美国没有。



[–]AkoTehPanda -2 8
The War on Terror.
Eh, that's a policy as opposed to an actualwar in itself.
Now you tell me when was the last Chinesewar?
That's your sole criteria for deciding if aforeign government is dangerous? The number of wars it's had?
Next year the US will be able to deploysoldiers to Afghanistan who weren't even born when the invasion began.
And this makes the US more of a threat tous than the CCP how?

“反恐战争”
嗯，这是一种政策，而不是一场真正的战争。
“现在你能告诉我上次中国打仗是什么时候吗？”
那是你判断外国政府是否危险的唯一标准是什么？战争的次数？
“明年，美国将能够向阿富汗派遣在入侵开始时还未出生的士兵”
这就让美国比中国对我们更有威胁了吗？有什么关联？

[–]Merlord 4 8
Eh, that's a policy as opposed to an actualwar in itself.
No, it's a war. Tens of thousands of peoplehave died.

“嗯，这是一种政策，而不是一场真正的战争”
不，这是一场战争。数万人因之死亡。



[–]jintianbuchiren 9 7
Now you tell me when was the last Chinesewar?
The current 'war' against its own people,which is happening every day. Looking at the budget of 'domestic security' VS'military' each year, anyone would know 'who' is the enemy of China.
We Chinese who have not been brainwashedcompletely know the way CCP handles its flocks. I've been living there for over30 years, the life told me how bad it is.

“现在你能告诉我上次中国打仗是什么时候吗？”
当前针对本国人民的“战争”每天都在发生。看看每年“国内安全”与“军事”的预算，谁都知道“谁”是中国的敌人。
我们这些没有被xi脑的中国人完全知道处理羊群的方式。我在那里生活了30多年，那种生活告诉我有多么糟糕。

[–]praiseB2me 20 8
When was the US last war?
right now? That's what makes the USdifferent: It can do (almost) all of the stuff people accuse the big bullycountries of doing, except it does it in such a way that those same people areblind to it.
Sure, the president hasn't come on the TVand said "we are at war with X" for over a decade, but they'vefigured out other ways of making piles of bodies even so! They're involved inSyria, helping Saudi Arabia with its campaign in Yemen, etc, etc. Are yousaying because those weren't formally declared as "The USA vs CountryX" the USA can't be seen as not engaging in war? If so, that's absurd!They can do whatever they want as long as they say things like "We are uhhgently massaging tensions in the Middle East with ballistic basedcoercion" instead of "We are at war"? For all the misplacedcircle jerking about the book "1984" that goes on, this is when it'sactually relevant. that's what Orwell was getting at! Countries can be at warand somehow you think they're not, just because of the language they use.
Even like the comment two above you said:"China is expanding the borders of its empire (currently South China Sea.)America is not." The USA found a better way of doing that that has betterpublic relations implications. They don't need to forcefully expand theirborders. They can just bend countries to their will with economic & politicalpressure. It's much much more effective and even more opaque (to most people)than China's brazen expansion (although China definitely does the same lessobvious things as the USA, of course). They can do things like fuck with thedemocracy of a country, destabilizing it for almost a decade and counting(there are oodles of examples of the USA doing this in the past century+, thisis just one of the most recent ones), just because they didn't like the personwho won fair and square - and still get declared "defenders of globalfreedom and democracy" - just because they say that's what they are!

“美国上一次打仗是什么时候？”
现在？这就是美国与众不同的地方：它可以（几乎）做人们指责那些恃强凌弱的大国所做的一切事情，只是它的做法让这些国家的人视而不见而已。



[–]AkoTehPanda -1 8
right now? That's what makes the USdifferent: It can do (almost) all of the stuff people accuse the big bullycountries of doing, except it does it in such a way that those same people areblind to it.
Which foreign nation is the US currently atwar with?
They're involved in Syria
Fighting rebel jihadis, not currentlyfighting the Syrian government.
helping Saudi Arabia with its campaign inYemen
SA is an ally of the US, has been for along time. Assisting allies, primarily logistically, is expected.
Are you saying because those weren'tformally declared as "The USA vs Country X" the USA can't be seen asnot engaging in war? If so, that's absurd!
Then by that definition China is also atwar in Syria. They might have invested less resources, but they have a presencethere.
They can do whatever they want as long asthey say things like "We are uhh gently massaging tensions in the MiddleEast with ballistic based coercion" instead of "We are at war"?For all the misplaced circle jerking about the book "1984" that goeson, this is when it's actually relevant. that's what Orwell was getting at!Countries can be at war and somehow you think they're not, just because of thelanguage they use.
The US is always involved in conflict,sure, but you've got to separate involvement in conflict from wars ofaggression. Iraq was a war of aggression, as was Afghanistan. Syria isn't.
Even like the comment two above you said:"China is expanding the borders of its empire (currently South China Sea.)America is not." The USA found a better way of doing that that has betterpublic relations implications. They don't need to forcefully expand theirborders. They can just bend countries to their will with economic & politicalpressure. It's much much more effective and even more opaque (to most people)than China's brazen expansion (although China definitely does the same lessobvious things as the USA, of course). They can do things like fuck with thedemocracy of a country, destabilizing it for almost a decade and counting(there are oodles of examples of the USA doing this in the past century+, thisis just one of the most recent ones), just because they didn't like the personwho won fair and square - and still get declared "defenders of globalfreedom and democracy" - just because they say that's what they are!
Yes... hence why I specifically said in mylast statement:
The US do some horrible shit
Now please explain to me how China is lessof a threat to NZ than the US is.

“现在？这就是美国与众不同的地方：它可以（几乎）做人们指责那些恃强凌弱的大国所做的一切事情，只是它的做法让这些国家的人视而不见而已”
美国目前与哪个国家交战？
他们卷入了叙利亚
与叛军圣战分子作战，而不是与叙利亚政府作战。

帮助沙特阿拉伯在也门的行动
沙特是美国的盟友，已经有很长时间了。预计将主要在后勤上协助盟国。
“你是说，因为那些没有被正式宣布为“美国VS X国”，美国就不能被视为参与了战争？如果是这样，那就太荒谬了！”
按照这个定义，中国在叙利亚也处于战争状态。他们可能投入较少的资源，但他们在那里有一席之地。

“他们可以做任何他们想做的事情，只要他们说“我们正在用弹道导弹胁迫温和地缓和中东的紧张局势”而不是“我们在打仗”？关于《1984》这本书的所有错位的循环，这是它真正相关的时候。这就是奥威尔的意思！国家可能处于战争状态，但你可能会认为他们没有，仅仅是因为他们使用的语言不同”



[–]AkoTehPanda -1 8
When what the US last war? The most recentis the war in Afghanistan 2001 - present. While they were having this war theystarted and finished another one in Iraq (2003 - 2011).
So the most recent is 2003, ending in 2011and the current ongoing started in 2001. The US hasn't started a war in 15years?
A quick google reveals "The U.S. HasBeen At War 222 Out of 239 Years. This morning, I discovered an interestingstatistic, America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years –Since 1776, i.e. the U.S. has only been at peace for less than 20 years totalsince its birth."
So you would argue that the US is more of athreat to NZ than China is because the US has had more wars recently?

“美国上一次战争是什么时候？最近的一次是2001年阿富汗战争。在这场战争中，他们开始并结束了另一场伊拉克战争（2003 –2011）”
最近的一次是2003年，截止到2011年，目前正在进行的是2001年。美国已经15年没有发动战争了？
“一个简短的谷歌揭示了“美国在239年的战争中有222年处于战争状态”。今天早上，我发现了一个有趣的数据，自1776年以来，美国93%的时间都处于战争状态——239年当中有222年处于战争状态，也就是说，美国从诞生之日起，和平状态的时间还不到20年”
所以你会说美国比中国对新西兰的威胁更大，因为美国最近发生了更多的战争？

[–]OuterReefer 6 6
" So the most recent is 2003, endingin 2011 and the current ongoing started in 2001. The US hasn't started a war in15 years? "
That is right. You are pretty good atreading AND maths.
" So you would argue that the US ismore of a threat to NZ than China is because the US has had more wars recently?"
I am not arguing anything. You asked aquestion about when the last US war was and I answered it. You're welcome.

“最近的一次是2003年，截止到2011年，目前正在进行的是2001年。美国已经15年没有发动战争了？”
是的。你很擅长阅读和数学。
“所以你会说美国比中国对新西兰的威胁更大，因为美国最近发生了更多的战争？”
我没有争辩什么。你问我上次美国战争是什么时候，我回答了。欢迎。



[–]AkoTehPanda 2 7
The US is currently fighting wars in atleast Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Pakistan, Libya and Somalia.
Of those, Afghanistan is the only one thatthe US initiated.
Iraq, Syria, Pakistan, Somalia and(Current) Libya are all fighting against terrorist insurgent groups... mainlyIS and AQ. Of those, only Syria is one in which the US isn't there at therequest of the government and even there they aren't in active conflict withthe govermental forces.
Yemen and the previous Libya conflict areboth situations that the US was dragged into by allies. In Libya it was France,Yemen is SA.
That's not indicative of warmongering,that's indicative of a nation that supports it's allies.
It is also providing support and arms tobelligerents in countless other conflicts all over the globe
Are they actually doing that right now?Source?
probably has many covert militaryoperations we have no idea about.
So does literally everyone with a halfdecent military apparatus.
I'm surprised this escaped your attention.
I'm surprised people think the US shouldbear all the responsibility for wars when they are primarily playing asupportive role in damn near every conflict.

“美国目前至少在阿富汗、伊拉克、叙利亚、也门、巴基斯坦、利比亚和索马里交战”
其中，阿富汗是美国发起的唯一一个。
伊拉克、叙利亚、巴基斯坦、索马里和（目前）利比亚都在打击恐怖主义叛乱组织。主要是IS和基地组织。在这些国家中，只有叙利亚没有美国政府的要求，即使在那里，美国也没有与政府发生积极冲突。

也门和此前的利比亚冲突都是美国被盟国拖入的局势。利比亚是法国，也门是南非。
这并不是战争贩子，而是一个支持盟友的国家。
“它还向世界各地无数其他冲突中的交战国提供支持和武器”
他们现在真的在这么做吗？来源有没有？

“可能还有许多我们不知道的秘密军事行动”
几乎每个拥有一半像样军事装备的人都是如此。
“我很惊讶这件事没有引起你的注意。”
我很惊讶，人们认为美国应该承担所有战争的责任，而他们主要是在该死的几乎所有冲突中扮演支持角色。



[–]cromulent_weasel 3 7
Could you imagine if Iran had militarybases dotted along the mexican and canadian borders? What would the reactionbe?
Is this that much different?

你能想象如果伊朗在墨西哥和加拿大边境有军事基地?会有什么反应？
这有什么不同吗？

[–]AkoTehPanda 3 7
I'm unsure what you are asking. US placesmilitary bases in foreign countries that agree to them. Are you asking mewhether I think Iran has a right to be pissed of and concerned about the US?
I think that Iran has every right to beworried about that. I also think that if the US and Iran could get along, theME would be much better for it. One of the biggest problems I have with thecurrent US administration is the unnecessary hostility shown for Iran. On thebalance of things I think the Iran has more to offer the West, at a far lowerrisk, than SA does.

我不知道你在问什么。美国在同意它们的国家设立军事基地。你是在问我，我是否认为伊朗有权对美国感到愤怒和担心吗？
我认为伊朗完全有权利对此感到担忧。我还认为，如果美国和伊朗能够和睦相处，中东就会好得多。我对当前美国政府最大的问题之一，就是对伊朗表现出不必要的敌意。总的来说，我认为伊朗有更多的东西可以提供给西方，风险比沙特低得多。



[–]Alaishana -1 4
You got to be effing joking.
The USA is the biggest war monger in humanhistory.
When was their last war???????????????????
How many wars are they fighting RIGHT now?
And how many wars are they supporting?

你一定是在开玩笑。
美国是人类历史上最大的战争贩子。
他们上一次的战争是什么时候?
他们现在打了多少仗？
他们支持了多少战争？

[–]Sun_Disc 1 8
The US military has a mandate to avoidkilling civilians where possible. Obviously this doesn't always work out inpractice but the underlying ethic is there. This is why all of their mostrecent wars have been painfully drawn out and expensive affairs. If they justwanted to roll cunts with no regard for civilians they absolutely could, butthey don't.
China on the other hand. I do not evenremotely trust that they have any qualms about collateral damage if they decideto invade somewhere.

美国军方的任务是尽可能避免杀害平民。很明显，这在实践中并不总是可行的，但是潜在的伦理是存在的。这就是为什么他们最近的所有战争都是痛苦地拖延和昂贵的事务。如果他们只想上女人而不关心平民，他们绝对可以，但他们不会。
另一方面，中国。我甚至不相信，如果他们决定入侵某个地方，他们会对附带的损害感到不安。



[–]diceyy 1 2
it's an indicator of what a nationdominated by China would end up as.
Just look at what they're doing to hongkong post british rule

这是一个由中国主导的国家最终会变成什么样的指标。
看看他们对过去由英国统治的香港做了什么

[–]mudpilot 24 7
They’re not on a par mate. China doesn’tneed to consider building walls to keep people out. They are more interested incontrolling outflows, harvesting the organs of executed polical undesirablesand scoring their citizens on their “social credit”. The USA is far fromperfect but just like the last time an expansionist Asian regime threatened thePacific, they did the heavy lifting militarily to protect us. Why do you thinkAustralia and the US are so tight? Our troops were mostly in Europe, theAussies lost a lot of their young men fighting alongside the US Marines in thePacific. The same Marines that copped the bloodiest and most difficult fightingto protect our country. If you think that China and the US are on a par interms of human rights abuses you need to take off your rose tinted glasses andread your history.

他们不是同类人。中国不需要考虑建造围墙把人们拒之门外。他们更感兴趣的是控制资金外流，获取被处决的不受欢迎的警cha的qi官，并根据他们的“社会信用”给他们的公民打分。美国远不完美，但就像上次亚洲扩张主义政权威胁太平洋一样，他们采取军事行动保护我们。为什么你认为澳大利亚和美国如此紧密？我们的部队主要驻扎在欧洲，澳大利亚人在太平洋与美国海军陆战队并肩作战时失去了很多年轻士兵。正是这些海军陆战队为了保卫我们的国家而进行了最血腥、最艰难的战斗。如果你认为中国和美国在侵犯人权方面处于同等地位，你需要摘下你的玫瑰色眼镜，看看你的历史。



[–]qwerty145454 9 5
Christ, they're not even in the same moraluniverse
The US has killed hundreds of thousands ofpeople in the last decade alone in it's endless middle-eastern quagmires.That's only direct involvement, if we include support for countries like the Saudiregime and their ongoing genocide in Yemen then we could easily jack the tollinto the millions.
They are not as far apart as you seem tobelieve. Both countries are morally bankrupt.

天啊，他们甚至不在同一个道德世界里
仅在过去10年里，美国就在中东无尽的困境中杀死了数十万人。这只是直接参与，如果我们包括对沙特政权和也门正在进行的种族灭绝等国家的支持，那么我们可以轻易地将死亡人数增加到数百万。
他们之间的差距并不像你想象的那么远。这两个国家都在道德上破产。

[–]didntasemebro 5 5
The US has killed hundreds of thousands ofpeople in the last decade alone in it's endless middle-eastern quagmires
That's not correct - The US army killed25,285 - Combatants, as in soliders with guns, in the Irar War - in total.Anywhere up to 600k people died during this time but its not accurate or fairto say the US is responsible for the civilian deaths without mentioning Iran,Sunni Militias, the jihadists, the Iraqs themselves that were responsible forthe majority of the killing of innocents.
They are not as far apart as you seem tobelieve. Both countries are morally bankrupt
No more moral-relativism, the CCP is theNazi Germany of our day

“仅在过去10年里，美国就在中东无尽的困境中杀死了数十万人”
这是不正确的——美国军队总共杀害了25285名士兵，就像在伊拉克战争中持枪的士兵一样。在此期间，有多达60万人死亡，但说美国应对平民死亡负责既不准确也不公平，更不用说伊朗、逊尼派民兵组织、圣战分子和伊拉克人自己，他们才是杀害无辜者的主要凶手。
“他们之间的差距并不像你想象的那么远。这两个国家都在道德上破产”
不再是道德相对主义，中国就是我们这个时代的坚果德国



[–]qwerty145454 4 3
By that twisted logic, Why not blame theMongol Hordes for chaos in the middle east? I mean it wasn't that long ago theHordes razed Baghdad right?
How is that remotely comparable to Americaliterally starting a war that kills hundreds of thousands? The only twistedlogic here are the arguments you're bringing up.
I agree the PRC deserves severe criticism,but so does the US. The only one with double standards here is you: you excusethe US for the same things you condemn the PRC. I condemn both.
They're not concentration camps in America,it's real simple
So once again, when America does it it'sfine and not concentration camps. When China does it they are concentrationcamps. Pretty clear you're just shilling for America.

按照这种扭曲的逻辑，为什么不把中东的混乱归咎于蒙古部落呢？我的意思是，那群人把巴格达夷为平地也就是不久之前的事，对吧？
这和美国发动一场导致数十万人死亡的战争有什么可比性呢？这里唯一扭曲的逻辑是你提出的论点。
我同意中国应该受到严厉批评，但美国也一样。这里唯一具有双重标准的是你：你为同样谴责中国的事情却原谅美国。我谴责。
“他们不是美国的集中营，很简单”
所以再一次，当美国这么做的时候，这是好的，而不是集中营。当中国这么做的时候，他们就是集中营。很明显你是在为美国袒护。

[–]didntasemebro 1 2
They weren't valid issues they wereattempts to derail the discussion None of your points listed above are eitherrelevant or comparable interference in our democracy. You can't list anybecause they don't exist, because the United States Government is not a threatto NZ democracy, CCP China is.
You say you care about NZ by refusing toacknowledge or discuss the topic in this thread: CCP interference in ourdemocracy, what you do instead, is cry "Look at America instead."while calling me a CIA shill. It's equal parts curious and hilarious.

他们不是有效的问题他们试图破坏讨论，你上面列出的任何观点都与我们的民主无关或类似。你不能列举任何一个，因为他们不存在，因为美国政府对新西兰的民主没有威胁，而中国有。
你说你关心新西兰，因为你拒绝承认或讨论这个话题：中国干涉我们的民主，而你做的，是叫我“看看美国”，同时称我中情局托儿。搞笑又搞笑。



[–]didntasemebro 1 1
Did you not realise how transparent youare?
says the Chinese guy desperately trying toargue that America and the CCP are just as bad, hahaha.

“你没有意识到你是多么透明吗？”
说那个拼命想说美国和中国一样坏的中国人，哈哈哈。

[–]qwerty145454 1 1
says the Chinese guy desperately trying toargue that America and the CCP are just as bad, hahaha.
Since when am I Chinese? That's news to me.Shows how you think if you have to imagine I'm Chinese.

“说那个拼命想说美国和中国一样坏的中国人，哈哈哈”
我什么时候开始变成中国人了？这对我来说是个新闻。这话看出如果你必须把我想象成中国人，你会怎么想。

[–]shiranaihito99 5 4
Wow. The ignorance in this statement. TheUS has a history of overthrowing democratically elected governments in much ofSouth America and a few in the Middle East too. I'm not going to defend Chinaand its actions either. That's not the point. But the idea that the USA isbetter somehow just means you buy into, and are more susceptible to theirpropaganda (which makes sense because they speak English, are white, and havehistorically been closer to us as allies).
Which country is relatively better is notthe point. The point is that both countries are empires and the best way for NZand other smaller countries to not be a puppet of either is to leverage themagainst each other all the while trying to develop international norms andinfrastructure in which to "contain" them.

哇。这句话中的无知。美国有推翻南美大部分地区民选政府和中东少数地区民选政府的历史。我也不会为中国及其行动辩护。这不是重点。但是，认为美国更好的想法，在某种程度上，只是意味着你相信他们，更容易受到他们宣传的影响（这是有道理的，因为他们说英语，是白人，而且从历史上看，他们作为盟友与我们更亲近）。
哪个国家相对更好并不是重点。关键是，这两个国家都是帝国，对新西兰和其他较小国家来说，不让它们成为任何一个的傀儡，最好的办法就是让它们相互制衡，同时努力制定国际准则和基础设施，在其中“牵制”它们。



[–]shiranaihito99 2 2
Iran is the most recognised historicalexample. In the 1950's the democratically elected leader of Iran was deposedand a puppet regime was installed which was quite brutal which was the mainreason the revolution happened in the 70's.

伊朗是最着名的历史例子。在20世纪50年代，伊朗民主选举的领导人被废黜，傀儡政权建立，这是相当残酷的，这是70年代革命发生的主要原因。

[–]Land_Value_Tax 1 2
Iran is the most recognised historicalexample. In the 1950's the democratically elected leader of Iran was deposedand a puppet regime was installed which was quite brutal which was the mainreason the revolution happened in the 70's.
You are going to have to give a source forthis and other examples would be needed for there to be a 'history' of it.

“伊朗是最着名的历史例子。在20世纪50年代，伊朗民主选举的领导人被废黜，傀儡政权建立，这是相当残酷的，这是70年代革命发生的主要原因”
你必须要提供这个的来源，并且需要其他的例子来证明它的“历史”。

[–]shiranaihito99 2 1
It's well documented. Look it up foryourself.

这是有据可查的。自己查一下。

[–]Land_Value_Tax 1 1
It's well documented. Look it up foryourself.
I don't mean the coup itself. I mean yourassessment that the government was democratically elected especially given thatthe Royalists and Pro-British got more seats than the National Front Party(Iran). You are still yet to give any other Middle East democracies overthrownby America or how it is anywhere near as brutal as events that have occurredinvolving the CCP.

“这是有据可查的。自己查一下”
我不是指政变本身。我是说，你认为政府是民主选举产生的，特别是考虑到保皇派和亲英派获得的席位比国民阵线（伊朗）多。你还没有给任何其他被美国推翻的中东民主国家，也没有告诉他们，它是如何接近于与中国有关的残酷事件的。

[–]didntasemebro 6 3
It is stunning to me that this comment hasso many upvotes. Clearly /r/newzealand is filled with xenophobes, racists, andtotal idiots. Absolutely mental.
ah yes, the old: valid and timely criticismof the unelected, brutal ethno-nationalist CCP junta is actually racism trope

我很震惊这条评论得到这么多的支持。显然，新西兰充满了仇外者、种族主义者和十足的白痴。绝对精神。
啊，是的，旧的:对未经选举产生的野蛮的民族主义军政府的有效和及时的批评实际上是种族主义的比喻

[–]Stretched_Sample -2 30
Please describe for us then the maligneffects of Chinese influence on New Zealand's national interests.
Be precise and comprehensive.

请给我们描述一下中国对新西兰国家利益的负面影响。
请准确全面。

[–]Shamic 1 2
do you mean america is the lesser of twoevils, compared with china? that's kind of extremely obvious

你是说和中国相比，美国是两害相权取其轻吗？这是非常明显的

[–]General_Ney 26 9
Not sure about Canada but we are currentlynegotiating an FTA with the EU. Diversifying our economic partners isdefinitely the way to go.

加拿大还不确定，但我们正在与欧盟谈判自由贸易协定。使我们的经济伙伴多样化无疑是前进的道路。

[–]Gyn_NagDine in or take away 4 9
Smaller economies in SEA, South America,South and East Europe, Central Asia and Africa.
Individually they're smaller than China orthe US but by trading with a lot of them it really adds up.
Plenty of manufacturing in SEA, plenty ofexport markets all over, and heavy industry in Europe, and tourist $$$ from thelot of them.

东南亚、南美洲、南欧和东欧、中亚和非洲的较小经济体。
单独来看，它们比中国或美国要小，但通过与它们中的许多国家进行贸易，它们的规模确实相当大。
大量的制造业在东南亚，大量的出口市场在欧洲，重工业在欧洲，旅游业从中获利。

[–]fraseyboyLoves Dead_Rooster 43 10
The full report is pretty interesting. Mostof the talk about NZ is in Chapter 7. My first question was "why is Chinainterested in little old NZ" and the report answers that.
New Zealand is of interest to China’sParty-State-Military-Market nexus for a number of significant reasons:
The New Zealand government is responsiblefor the defence and foreign affairs not only of New Zealand, but also of threeterritories in the South Pacific: the Cook Islands, Niue and Tokelau, whichmeans four potential votes for China at
international forums;
Since 2011 when legislation was passed toencourage offshore- managed funds to invest in New Zealand, the nation hasdeveloped some reputation as a hotspot for global money laundering. The CookIslands, Niue and Tokelau are also well- known money laundering nations;
New Zealand is a claimant state inAntarctica and one of the closest access points to it. China has a long-termstrategic agenda in Antarctica that will require the cooperation of establishedAntarctic states such as New Zealand
New Zealand has cheap arable land and asparse population, and China seeks access to foreign arable land to improve itsfood safety;
New Zealand supplies 24 per cent of China’sforeign milk, and China is the biggest foreign investor in New Zealand’s dairysector
New Zealand is useful for near-spaceresearch, an important new area of weapons research for the PLA;
New Zealand has unexplored oil and gasresources and China is expanding its offshore oil and gas exploration; and
New Zealand has expertise in multilateraltrade negotiations, Pacific affairs, Antarctic science, and horticulturalscience, which is useful to China.
The report also specifically mentions:
Targeted political donations through ethnicChinese business figures with strong links to the CCP;
As a means of gaining influence. Hmmm



[–]damage-sponge 1 1
This should be higher up.
I see Chinese interest in NZ as anopportunity to get its foot into resource extraction in the Southern Pacific.
Similar things are already happening withFiji and the pacific with China offering money for votes at internationalforums.
If they can buy enough votes from Pacificnations, They can more easily move in for resource extraction/expansion.

这个回复应该被置顶。
我认为，中国对新西兰的兴趣是涉足南太平洋资源开采的一个机会。
类似的事情已经在斐济和太平洋地区发生，中国也在国际论坛上出资投票。
如果他们能从太平洋国家那里买到足够的选票，他们就能更容易地进入资源开采/扩张领域。

[–]mudpilot 18 9
NZ people in the main are generous andtrusting. Dealing with the state of China is a major change for NZ and in themain we went into it like most of our dealings - believing the best of ourtrade partners.

新西兰人一般都很慷慨和信任。对新西兰来说，与中国打交道是一个重大的变化。基本上，我们是像大多数其他交易一样与中国开展贸易——把我们的贸易伙伴往最好了想。

[–]Go_Cuthulu_Go 1 6
NZ people in the main are generous andtrusting.
Lol. Have you never read stuff comments?

“新西兰人一般都很慷慨和信任”
呵呵。你读过材料评论吗？

[–]king_john651 5 6
They're not really representative of thewhole country and the 200 years of a developed culture

他们并不能代表整个国家和200年的发达文化



[–]pharos92 7 4
This is deeply concerning. Laws need to bepassed desperately to remove foreign money from our political system. I thinkwe need less US influence here too.

这令人深感忧虑。迫切需要通过法律，将外国资金从我们的政治体系中剔除出去。我认为我们在这里同样也需要更少的美国影响力。