Quora: 谁技术更先进, 中国、罗马帝国还是印度

Who was more advanced technologically around 1 AD: China, Roman Empire or India?

在公元元年左右，谁在技术上更先进：中国、罗马帝国还是印度?

Quora评论翻译：

Andrew Roberts

Of the 3 only Rome existed, so I’ll have to go for Rome, before you consider what Roman technology there was, or the relative state of Roman metallurgy - Wikipedia.

在这3个国家中，当时只有罗马帝国存在，所以我只能选罗马。

If you want a comparison between Rome and the Han dynasty, which occupied much of today’s China, then I’d still go with Rome, as though their nominal GDP’s have been estimated as nearly identical, the Han dynasty had 60 to Rome’s 44 million bodies, indicating Rome was applying its technology more effectively, to maximise what it could extract out of its Citizens / Subjects, as the estimated relative iron production figures appear to support. Though the likes of the Chinese Counting rods numeral system was obviously superior to the Roman and Greek Numerals, in common use at the time, as was the weaving of silk vs linen, while the Romans clearly excelled in hydraulic engineering, ship building, and glass production, but in many areas they were comparable. Trade between the regions compensated for some of the inequalities, see: Roman commerce.

就算拿罗马和汉朝相比（当时的汉朝跨越今天中国的大部分地区），我仍选择罗马，尽管他们当时的GDP几乎相当。汉代人口大约为6000万，罗马帝国人口为4400万，这表明罗马技术更先进，当时的铁产量数据似乎可以支持这一点。虽然当时中国的算筹计数明显优于罗马和希腊数字，还有丝绸和麻布的织法也更先进，但是罗马人明显更擅长水利工程、造船和玻璃生产。许多领域具有可比性，各地区之间的贸易弥补了一些不平衡，可以研究一下当时的罗马商业。

India just didn’t exist in the period, with dozens of minor empires and kingdoms all claiming bits of South Asia: Kushan Empire, Suren Kingdom, Chera dynasty, Ay, Chola dynasty, Mushika Kingdom, Satavahana dynasty, Dasarna Kingdom, Kongu Nadu , Kalinga, Suhma Kingdom, Vanga Kingdom , Davaka, Indo-Greek Kingdom, … with no single writing system, no lingua franca, no central administration, no maintained road networks, no civil service, no Pax Romana / Han enforcing rule of law in the region, no public fountains, almost no written history, almost no stone construction, … For a comparison with a South Asian empire, that controlled most of the territory of the current Republic, you'd have to push the timeframe forward, for the South Asian entry, to the mid 14th century, and the Delhi Sultanate of the Tughlaq dynasty. Which despite resolving the lack of a central administration, fairly uniform taxation, stone construction, and a professional military, with a few forts, they didn’t really contribute much to mankind.

在当时，印度根本不存在，几十个小帝国和王国都声称拥有南亚的部分领土：贵霜帝国、苏伦王国、哲罗王国、奥伊王国、朱罗王国、穆希卡王国、萨塔瓦哈那王朝、达萨尔纳王国、羯陵伽国、苏玛王国、文伽王国、达瓦卡王国、印度-希腊等等，没有统一的文字、没有共同的语言、没有中央政府、没有道路网络、没有行政部门、没有罗马帝国统治下的和平或者汉朝实施的法治、几乎没有文字记载的历史、几乎没有石头建筑。真要有一个南亚帝国拿出来比，你必须将时间推后到14世纪中期，到图格鲁克王朝的德里苏丹国。尽管解决了缺乏中央管理的问题、执行统一税收、修建石头建筑，建立军队以及一些堡垒，但他们对人类的贡献并不大。

 

Hammad Shakil, works at NED University of Engineering and Technology

Andrew Roberts’s views are typical eurocentric biased views which his colonial ancestors have propagated since they ruled and left india.

Andrew Roberts的观点是典型的以欧洲中心的观点，带有偏见。

if you pick up faxien’s account of gupta empire alone which depicts a welfare, peaceful, liberal government, it would dispel any notions of bad indian administration compared to cruel, barbaric, rules of the romans, indian kings never throw innocent people infront of wild animals to serve an entertainment purpose for the general public. the very first concept of a civic hospital was born from indian civilization and faxien rightly points out many charitable hospital which functioned during gupta period through the donations of wealthy people, killing animals was banned and the society was vegetarian, the tax were very lenient and the capital punishment was not carried out. the first time criminals were forgiven and only punished if they repeated the offence. there was no concept of imprisonment. despite such liberalism, there was peace and a crime free society

与罗马人残忍、野蛮的统治相比，印度国王从不把无辜的人拿去喂野生动物，以供民众娱乐。医院的概念诞生于印度文明。在笈多王朝时期，许多慈善医院依靠富人的捐款维持，禁止猎杀动物、倡导素食、税务宽松而且没有死刑。首次罪犯可被原谅，只有当重复犯罪时才会受到惩罚，也没有监禁这一说法。如此自由了，社会依旧和平、没有犯罪。

now compare this rule to chinese or the romans, who enforced their rules with absolute barbarity.

中国人或罗马人，他们以绝对野蛮的方式进行统治

when it comes to civilization advancement, let me just state a very naked fact that in abbasid count in the 9th century, there were only two schools of thought which existed there, 1) hellenistic 2) indian. indian and hellenistic medicine, astronomy, maths, science etc rule the roost, indians were called from india to translate sanskrit texts into arabic or persian, indian astronomers were called to construct observatories in persia and the islamic world, indian medical doctors competed with greek or hellenistist doctors in the court, this is not told by indians, no indian documents speak about such indian achievemenets but the arab/ persian and islamic scholars themselves. there were no chinese medicine, roman science which were given importance in the islamic world.

说到文明的进步，我想说一个非常明显的事实：在公元9世纪的阿巴斯时期，只有两种思想流派，一种是希腊流派，另一种是印度流派。印度和希腊医学、天文学、数学、科学等占主导地位。梵文文献也被翻译成阿拉伯语或波斯语，印度天文学家受邀在波斯和ysl国家修建天文台，印度医生与希腊医生在宫廷里分庭抗礼，这些不是印度人自己说的，并没有印度文件提到印度成就，而是阿拉伯/波斯和ysl学者说的。在ysl世界中，没有中医，也没有罗马科学。

lastly about architecture, you can still see the model of amaravathi stupa from 2nd century which was unfortunately destroyed by earthquake or by hindus or it collapsed itself which is not known, but it was one of the largest free standing architecture in the ancient period, Kushan kings constructed the biggest free standing architecture in the 1st centry AD which is called Kanishka stupa (you can read about its chinese accounts and the gigantic construction it was at that time) if you want to compare their grandiose, you can see go to cylon and observe some 3nd century constructed srilankan stupa Jetavanaramaya and imagine it plastered with carved marbles which you can still see at the british museum. Indians were known for constructing multi story buildings, just read the xuanxang accounts of nalanda university who’s walls were so high that the rain would fall from the top due to condensed vapours, this is not stated by indians by by foreign visitors to india. all these gigantic constructions didn’t survive because of 1) war, 2) climatic conditions of india 3) they used bricks, they didn’t use slaves like romans to tow gigantic rocks to construct roman temples.

Regards

最后关于建筑方面，你仍然可以看到2世纪的阿玛拉瓦蒂佛塔模型，不幸的是，它们或被地震摧毁，或被印度教徒摧毁，或者自己倒塌了，但它是古代最大的独立建筑之一。在公元元年左右，贵霜王朝建造了最大的独立建筑迦腻色迦佛塔，如果你想瞻仰他们的宏伟，你可以去看看3世纪建造的祗陀林佛塔。印度人以建造多层建筑而闻名，可以去看看玄奘有关那烂陀大学的叙述，那烂陀大学的围墙很高，以至于水蒸汽会在屋顶凝结成雨水滴落下来。所有这些建筑不是被战争破坏，就是被印度的气候锁侵蚀而不复存在。这些建筑使用砖块，而不像罗马人那样用奴隶拖着巨石建造罗马庙宇。

Abhinav Singhal, MSc physics from Birla Institute of Technology and Science, Pilani (2022)

I would make a different point here. India at that time had universities with students from the entire world coming to study there. They were the most advanced at that time in chemical sciences and metallurgy. Romans too viewed Indians as the most skilled in ch chemical technology. India traded with Rome and the Indian export was much than the import. The Romans were eventually drained of their gold by Indians. They had to reduce the quantity of gold in their coins. Indians were really good at smuggling and hence inflow of Indian products could not be stopped. The Indians accepted the new coins with low gold content happily as it was easy to counterfeit them!!! The Greeks did have a wonderful system of sciences and technology but Indians and Chinese were at par with the Greeks. Indian philosophy had deeply affected Greek thought. Greeks adopted Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Indian sciences and developed them to New levels. Indians later on used this Greek base to develop even more advanced concepts in the 6th century and afterwards. At the time of Roamans, Indians and Chinese had pretty advanced scientific and technological achievements. The fact about Rome importing more from India than exporting proves many things without doubt. During the time of Greeks, India and China were pretty advanced and nowhere behind the Greeks. Later on, during the Romans, India and China went ahead in areas of spirituality, chemical and mathematical sciences, India specially in astronomy and civil engineering and other Industrial technologies. Production of fine textiles, sugarcane refining, spices etc. Were prevalent to a really advanced level in India. There are mentions of Atleast two expeditions sent by Chinese to India to learn about sugarcane refining and other such industrial technology. India at that time was undergoing rapid industrialisation. It was influenced by the kushans culture, and by the Greek culture as well. India at this time was the richest country. Many people think of gdp per capita as the sole basis of richness. The amount of gold and precious gems India accumulated during this time is enormous. Romans tried to ban Indian goods but as I mentioned, Indians were too good at smuggling. This is all mentioned by historians. Romans used to believe that Indians have an indefinite appetite for gold and other precious gems. So, I would place India and China on the top followed by Romans.

我想在这里提出一个不同的观点。当时的印度有很多大学，吸引了来自世界各地的学生。当时印度的化学科学和冶金学是最先进的。罗马人也认为印度人最擅长化学技术。印度与罗马进行贸易，印度的出口比进口多。罗马人的黄金最终都到了印度人手里，他们不得不减少金币数量。印度人擅长走私，无法阻止印度产品的流入。印度人欣然接受了这些低含金量的新硬币，这种金币很容易伪造!!!

希腊人的确拥有完善的科学技术体系，但印度人和中国人也不遑多让。

印度哲学深深地影响了希腊人的思想。希腊人采用了埃及、美索不达米亚和印度的科学，并将它们发展到新的水平。

后来，印度人以希腊为基础，在6世纪和之后发展了更先进的概念。在罗马时代，印度人和中国人有相当先进的科技成就。

在希腊时代，印度和中国不比希腊人落后。

后来，在罗马时期，印度和中国在宗教、化学和数学科学领域取得了进展，印度尤其在天文学和土木工程以及其他工业技术领域取得了进展。

在印度，精细纺织品、甘蔗精炼、香料等的生产非常普遍，达到了相当先进的水平。根据记载，至少有两支中国远征队前往印度学习甘蔗精炼和其他工业技术。当时的印度受到贵霜文化和希腊文化的影响，正经历着快速的工业化。当时的印度是最富有的国家。

许多人认为人均GDP是衡量财富的唯一基础。在此期间，印度积累了大量的黄金和宝石。罗马人试图禁止进口印度商品，前面提到过，印度人太擅长走私所以根本无法阻止，史学家都提到过这一点。罗马人曾经认为印度人对黄金和其他贵重宝石有着无限的欲望。

因此，我觉得印度和中国技术更先进，其次是罗马。

 

Vineet Vijayaraghavan, MBA from G D Goenka World Institute, India (2011)

The Gupta empire of India which is considered the Hindu golden age of India were far superior to China and Romans and would have defeated them both at war and in terms of civilisations achievements from mathematics, literature and high culture. The guptas are highly underrated by westerners since they are not well read on Indian history and tend to underrate India a lot.

笈多王朝被认为是印度的黄金时代，远比当时的中国和罗马优越，在战争和数学、文学和高雅文化的文明成就方面均可击败他们。西方人大大低估了笈多王朝，西方人对印度历史了解不多，常常低估印度。

 

Anant Bhatia

The Indians had a far superior sense of mathematics. They figured out Diophantine equations, Algebra, Calculus, Pi, and the Pythagorean theorem before the Western world. They were far more advanced in medicine, with they Ayurveda, and first cataract surgery. City Infrastructure, India had the first flushable toilets in Mohenjo Daro, sewage sytems, universities, and intricately carved buildings. For China, you take the indian civilization and multiply its greatness by 1.5. Eastern civilazation was far superior to that of the Romans.

印度人的数学先进得多。他们在西方世界之前就已经算出了丢番图方程、代数、微积分、圆周率和勾股定理。印度医学也先进得多，有阿育吠陀，进行了第一次白内障手术。在城市基础设施方面，第一个可冲洗的厕所出现在印度的摩亨朱-达罗，还有污水处理系统，大学和雕刻复杂的建筑。至于中国，把印度文明乘以1.5倍就差不多了。东方文明远比罗马文明优越。

 

Anudeep Ravi, overthinking stuff .... or Am I?

China and India seem to be at a similar technological level, With Romans behind both.

Roman Engineering could be matched in skill by both Chinese and Indians.

China and India were both more advanced than Romans in Metallurgy, Astronomy, Mathematics etc.

Making a Case for India,

India Had Universities around that time.

Others did not.

中国和印度的技术水平似乎不相上下，而罗马则比他们落后一些。

在工程方面，罗马可以与中国和印度相媲美。

中国和印度在冶金、天文学、数学等方面都比罗马人先进。

印度有一点占优势，当时的印度有大学，而中国和罗马没有。

 

Harry Dandas

the romans were good at innovation and not in the field of invention like the indians or chinese. They were not the first to use concrete but they inproved on it by adding volcanic ash for strength etc, and the roman arch is a big misname as the sumerians and persians used the arch in their buildings way before the romans, even the greeks used the arch in some of their buildings before the romans. There are more examples

罗马人擅长创新，而印度人和中国人擅长发明。罗马人不是第一个使用混凝土的，但是他们通过添加火山灰提高了强度。而罗马拱门其实是一个误称，苏美尔人和波斯人早在罗马人之前就在建筑中使用拱门，甚至希腊人也在罗马人之前在建筑中使用拱门。此类例子不胜枚举。

 

Hariganesh Muthukrishnan, Romanophile,Atheist

Rome was miles ahead of everyone else.

当时的罗马遥遥领先其他国家。

 

Quora User, Software, cryptography, machine learning, history buff

Definitely Romans. They inherited Greek achievements from libraries to science to incredible engineering to concept of law, arts, even concept of free market To a degree. Constant barbarian attacks and internal strife grind them down in a couple of centuries.

Honestly, modern civilization is built on Roman foundation. Second I would put China with its bureaucracy and organization.

当然是罗马的技术更先进。罗马人继承了希腊人的成就，从图书馆到科学，从令人难以置信的工程到法律、艺术，甚至到自由市场。持续不读的野蛮人攻击和内乱在几个世纪内将这些消磨得一干二净。

老实说，现代文明是建立在罗马文明的基础上的。其次是中国。

外文： https://www.quora.com/Who-was-more-advanced-technologically-around-1-AD-China-Roman-Empire-or-India