为什么人们会大批中国人用简体中文，却丫完全不在乎日语中的“汉字新字体”？ [美国媒体]

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------



Why do people shit on PRC for using simplified Chinese characters but no one gives a shit about Japanese Shinjitai?

为什么人们会大批中国人用简体中文，却丫完全不在乎日语中的“汉字新字体”？
原创翻译：龙腾网 http://www.ltaaa.com 翻译：翻译加工厂 转载请注明出处

-------------译者：penny12138-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

chanhyuk 12 points·9 hours ago
I assume it's only the most hardcore of Hong Kong/Taiwanese nationalists or retarded CCJ trolls who say this. I don't think I ever heard anyone complain about them outside this subreddit.

我认为只有香港和台湾最固执的名族主义者，或者是智力缺陷的钓鱼党才会说出这种话。除了在这个讨论区，我从没有听到过任何有关于此的抱怨。

WhiteZhengChengGong Cambodia 5 points·8 hours ago


xiefeilaga 6 points·6 hours ago
A debate pops up just about every time someone asks about whether to learn traditional or simplified on one of the language learning subreddits with the "destroyed cultural knowledge" argument coming out every single time.

每当有人问起，是应该学习传统的繁体字还是简化了的汉字时，总会引发争论，“破坏文化知识”的观点也总会被提出。

I've also gotten that lecture from plenty of HK Taiwan and diaspora folks. I'd say it comes up in about half of the initial conversations with people from those groups if we speak in Chinese or talk about my life in China.

在这个问题上，我被很多香港、台湾原住民和外籍华人“教育过”。必须要说的是，如果我们用中文交谈或者谈到我在中国的生活，大约有一半的对话会开始转向这个话题。

The more hardcore have taken to calling it 正体 (correct characters) rather than 繁体 (complex characters). Even for those who don't care as much they seem to think the simplification was much more extreme than it really was. One Taiwanese-American woman was totally convinced that simplified Chinese had done away with all distinctions between 的得 and 地 and simply used 的 for everything.

这些顽固分子中，更多地倾向于将传统中文汉字称为“正体（正确的汉字）”，而不是“繁体”。即使是不那么顽固的人，他们似乎也觉得汉字简化比其本身更加彻底极端。一位美籍台湾妇女坚信，简化汉字已经将“的”、“得”、“地”这三者之间的区别完全同化，只简单得在所有情况下都用“的”。

Lewey_B 2 points·1 hour ago
The “traditional is better” circlejerk is strong here especially in chinese language subreddits. Funnily enough you never hear PRC or simplified learners criticize traditional. Some people take this subject a bit too seriously and it seems more to be about politics than anything else in the end.

“传统的更好”这种无聊的思想在红迪网中国语言子版块上争论声更大。有趣的是，你从未听到过中国大陆人民或学习简化汉字的人指责传统的不好。一些人把这个问题看得太过严肃，最后似乎还将此上升到政治高度，而不是其它问题。

chinaxiha 0 points·7 hours ago（贴主）
HK and taiwanese and some other folks all say PRC destroyed chinese culture and one way PRC does that is to destroy chinese characters by doing simplified. HK and Taiwan therefore preserve chinese culture much better because they retain traditional writing.
i've never heard HKies and taiwanese claiming the japanese destroyed japanese culture by simplifying kanji.

香港和台湾以及其他人都说中国大陆破坏了中国文化，其中之一就是中国大陆推行简化汉字破坏了中国汉字。因为香港和台湾使用繁体汉字，所以他们更好地保存了中国文化。我从来没有听说香港人和台湾人指责日本人简化（日本）汉字而破坏了日本文化。

Jaqqarhan 6 points·7 hours ago
[i've never heard HKies and taiwanese claiming the japanese destroyed japanese culture]

[我从来没有听说香港人和台湾人指责日本人简化（日本）汉字而破坏了日本文化。]

They don't care about traditional Japanese culture because they aren't Japanese. It's the same reason British people complain about American English but never complain about Mexican Spanish or Quebecois French. People just get upset about perceived sins against their own language and culture

因为他们不是日本人，所以他们不关心日本传统文化。这和英国人抱怨美式英语但却从不指责墨西哥西班牙语或魁北克式法语是一个道理。人们只会对本民族的文化破坏感到不满和不安。

-------------译者：668-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

ABCinNYC98 3 points·7 hours ago
Because the Japanese aren't Chinese. Traditional vs Simplified is more about who is more authentic "Chinese" or who has more social gravitas.
Most Chinese don't view Japanese people as Chinese. They don't even use cursive form of kanji writing which is also a form of social signaling in the Chinese community. Most Chinese view Japanese culture as a derivative and frozen in time from when they brought over technology and literature from the mainland.
It's along the same lines of ethnic Korean in China no one cares about the other Korean writing system it's their fluency in hanja that Chinese people care about.

因为日本人不是中国人，繁体与简体更多的是关于谁是更正统的“汉字”或谁更具社交权威。大部分中国人不认为日本人是中国人，他们甚至不使用汉字的草书形式书写，这也是中国社会社交信号的一种形式。大多数中国人视日本文化为（中国文化的）一种衍生物，自他们从中国大陆引进技术和文学的时候起就被冻结了。中国的朝鲜族也一样，没人关心其他朝鲜文的书写体系，中国人关心的是他们（使用）朝鲜汉字的流利程度。

chinaxiha 0 points·5 hours ago
isn't jiaguwen most authentic.

甲骨文不是才是最正统的（汉字）吗？

PM-ME-YUAN 2 points·33 minutes ago
Traditional characters on a computer screen can't be read unless you zoom right in. They need destroying by fire.

电脑屏幕上的繁体字根本没法看懂，除非你放大了看。它们需要被焚掉。

leanhsi Great Britain 4 points·9 hours ago
tbh I have never heard this complaint voiced about the PRC either...

说实话，我也从来没听过关于中国大陆的这种抱怨的声音...

chinaxiha 5 points·9 hours ago
paging /u/hkric416.
i think its one of the most common criticism of prc from taiwanese and hkies. unfortunately lee kuan yew took away the singaporean's criticism right when he moved from traditionalist to simplified otherwise i'm sure they'll use it.

我想这是台湾人和香港人对中国大陆最常见的批评之一，不幸的是，当李光耀转向化繁为简时，他就剥夺了新加坡人批评的权利。否则，我肯定他们还是使用繁体字。

mprey 1 point·7 hours ago
My main issue isn't with simplification in itself just that they often look jarring and ugly next to traditional characters. Simplification either didn't go far enough or shouldn't have happened

我的主要问题不在于简化本身，而在于简体字对比繁体字经常显得突兀和丑陋。汉字简化要么是进行得不彻底，要么是一开始就不应该简化。

chinaxiha -2 points·7 hours ago
1.who gets to decide what characters look ugly and jarring? is there a possible obxtive standard
2.japanese shinjitai created many simplified kanji that is exactly the same as chinese simplified. do those look jarring and ugly too?
3.whats the basis for simplification going "far enough"?
4.i think jiaguwen looks best and better than traditional. that cursive form and abstractness is sexy af. should we bring that back?

1.谁来决定哪个字体看起来丑陋和突兀？这其中有没有客观的评判标准？
2.日本新字体创造了很多简化的汉字，跟中国的简化是完全一样的，这些字也看起来突兀和丑陋吗？
3.简化“彻底”的标准是什么？
4.我认为甲骨文看上去比繁体字好看得多，草书形式和抽象体是很性感的书写形式，我们应该恢复它们的使用吗？

-------------译者：668-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

mprey 7 points·6 hours ago
1.It looks like someone writing cursive and noncursive in one sentence. Or alternating caps. That looks jarring too. No there is no obxtive standard. It is my opinion. That is why I am posting it
2.Japanese already has all the non kanji characters so there is visual inconsistency built in already. I don't think it looks good
3.Ensuring that writing essentially dOeSN'T lOoK LiKE tHiS
4.Why not if you like it.

1.这就像有人用草书和非草书字体写了一句话，或像英文大小写交替着写句子，这样看起来也很突兀。没有，这其中就没有一个客观的标准，这是我的观点，这就是为什么我要发表我的观点的原因。
2.日本人已经创造了一套非汉字的文字，因此视觉上的不一致早已建成，我不觉得那看起来好看。
3. 这是为了确保书写本质上不会像这样。（这里是简繁混杂使用，简繁对比：确保书写本质上不会像这样/确保书写本质上不会像这样；原句国外网友为表达出这种视觉上的不协调，英文中故意大小写没规范混着一块用）
4.如果你喜欢它，为什么不用？

Lewey_B 1 point·1 hour ago
I find simplified to be better looking than traditional. Traditional is a PITA to write and looks bad in a small font. Also there are many characters with few strokes in simplified so your point #3 doesn't stand

我觉得简体字比繁体字更好看，繁体字蛋疼般得难写，而且字体小的话很难看。此外，也有很多繁体字有很少的笔画，所以你的第三个观点站不住脚。

Manji2077 1 point·9 hours ago
I would assume it's because many Japanese only know the common kanji characters and many of them go unused. It's common to have hiragana under kanji so people know what they mean.

我认为这是因为很多日本人只知道一些一般的汉字，而其中很多汉字都是不使用的。在汉字下面配有平假名是很常见的，这样人们就知道它们的意思了。

chinaxiha 3 points·9 hours ago·edited 9 hours ago
isn't knowing like 2000 words kinda of mandatory of high schoolers in japan?
my point being all the traditionalists who think lament the loss of the "king must listen to its people" in the hear word i've never heard of them shitting japan for throwing out all those history/culture.

日本的高中生不是强制性要求要识得2000字吗？我的观点是，所有内心世界哀叹着“国王必须倾听子民的心声”的时代已经逝去的传统主义者们，我可从来没有听他们大批日本要抛弃所有这些历史/文化。

Manji2077 2 points·9 hours ago
It is but few people actually retain that.
I don't know about china but Japan has had an large amount of reformation due to its history.

是的，但是很少有人记住这点。我不知道中国是怎样的，但出于历史原因，日本有进行过大量的改革。

-------------译者：668-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

chinaxiha 1 point·9 hours ago
yea i can understand why they don't retain it because they already have 2 other systems. but still the amount of kanji in everyday life surprises me. i literally know everything and where to go just based on kanji alone.
i guess my question is why are the traditionalists criticizing chinese reformation of the writing system but no one criticizes japanese reformation. most often the criticism is saying the simplification throws out history and culture but shinjitai is the same thing no?

是的，我能理解为什么他们不保留它，因为他们已经有了另外两种文字系统。但是日常生活中的汉字数量还是让我感到惊讶。我真的仅靠其中的日文汉字就能了解所有事情，知道该去哪里。我想我的问题是，为什么传统主义者批评中国书写系统的改革，却没有人批评日本的改革。最常见的批评是说简体字抛弃了历史和文化，而日本的新字体不是一回事吗？

Manji2077 1 point·9 hours ago
Oh wow that's cool I need to get better with it. Yeah it is odd. Just a difference in cultures I suppose

哦，哇哦，太酷了。我需要更好掌握它，是的，这很奇怪，我猜这只是文化上的差异。

Yirou 1 point·7 hours ago
It’s usually just extremely proud aka obnoxious HK/Taiwan people who say this. Never mind the fact that traditional writing does exist in mainland and most young educated people do know how to read them. They claim traditional are way better because they have more culture and history meaning which is kinda bs if you want a culture experience when communicating why don’t you carve in stone. Anyway most of them who love to move to Singapore where simplified Chinese is used that’s how much they care about it.

通常只有那些极端“自豪”也就是那些非常惹人厌的香港/台湾人会这么说，更不用说繁体书写在大陆确实存在过，且大部分受过教育的年轻人知道怎么读繁体字。他们称繁体字更好是因为繁体字有更多的文化和历史意义，这真能扯。如果你在交流时想要一种文化体验，为什么不干脆把字刻在石头上交流算了。不管怎么说，他们中的大多数人都喜欢搬到使用简体汉字的新加坡，这就是他们对简体中文真正的关心程度。

chinaxiha 2 points·7 hours ago
we should just bring back jiaguwen man. that is probably the most original and chinese cultuer writing present. traditional is just a basterdized version of jiaguwen the true chinese writing.

我们应该要恢复使用甲骨文，兄弟们。这可能是最原始的，也是最能体现中国书写文化的字体。繁体字只不过是中国正统汉字甲骨文的一个非正宗“血统”的私生子版本。

waiguorer 1 point·4 hours ago
But there isn't jiaguwen characters for so many modern words though if someone made a jiaguwen font I would totally fuck with it.

但是，现在这么现代词汇中并没有甲骨文字符，尽管如此，若有人真创造出一种甲骨文字体，我绝对会搞砸它的。