中国媒体警告：台湾必须放弃独立的“幻想” [英国媒体]

-------------译者：yearning-审核者：normalone------------



Taiwan should abandon its “hallucinations” about pushing for independence and any moves towards it would be a “poison”, Chinese state-run media said after a landslide victory for the island’s independence-leaning opposition.

中国的国营媒体在宝岛的有独立倾向的反对党获得压倒性大胜后声称：台湾应该放弃它推动独立的“幻想”，任何这方向的举动都是“危险的”。

Tsai Ing-wen and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) won a convincing victory in both presidential and parliamentary elections on Saturday, in what could usher in a new round of instability with China, which claims self-ruled Taiwan as its own.

蔡英文和她的民进党于周六在总统选举以及立法院选举中同时获得令人信服的胜利，这可能将其与中国的关系引入一个新的不稳定局面，因为中国宣称自治的台湾是属于它的领土。


-------------译者：今天狗过桥-审核者：normalone------------

MattSpanner 32m ago
Taiwan shows the way forward for all the countries tackling Beijing land-grabs: sign a defence pact with the US (Taiwan has the Taiwan Relations Act signed into law by Congress in 1979). Japan alteady has one butvIndia, Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei could do the same. Singapore and the Philippines already host US forces but a legal basis for mutual defence would be better.
 
台湾向所有国家展示了应对北京领土争夺的方法：同美国签署防御条约[台湾（可能想表达为“美国”）在1979年由国会签署了台湾关系法案]。日本也同样签署了防御条约，
另一方面印度，越南，菲律宾，马来西亚和文莱也可以这样做。新加坡和菲律宾已经邀请了美国军队但是在法律基础上的共同防御可能会更好。
 
GCOVERSEAS  MattSpanner 16m ago
Ukraine and Georgia will tell you very well what it is like to trust americans to save their ass when facing against a major power. Be realistic please!
 
 乌克兰和格鲁吉亚将会好好的告诉你相信美国人会保护他们从而与一个大国做对的后果。请现实一点！
 
renardbleu  GCOVERSEAS 11m ago
Comparing Ukraine/George with Taiwan is pointless. Taiwan's status has huge geopolitical implications for Japan/USA. Not to mention, Taiwan is also one of the top 30 largest economies in the world.

把乌克兰或者格鲁吉亚同台湾做对比是毫无意义的。台湾的现状对日本/美国有着巨大的地缘政治内涵。更不用说，台湾也是世界上排名前30的经济体。
 
renardbleu  renardbleu 11m ago
Georgia, even.

格鲁吉亚，复仇。

-------------译者：今天狗过桥-审核者：normalone------------

GCOVERSEAS 1h ago
Time is on Beijing's side, I believe, like it or not. Long story short, a small planet can not defeat the gravity field of a sun. Unfortunately, Taiwan is that small planet regardless it is democratic or not. Plus, democracy is not a recipe for everything, not to bad economy, not to the social issues. It is just like ppl in China decades ago believed communism is the key to everything. They learnt a hard way and finally turned their country around. Just see how it turns out to be now. Yes, it is not perfect. But you can't deny it is still improving. Giving both sides across the straits some time, we will see eventually Taiwan will be re absorbed into the mainland.

 无论喜不喜欢，我相信时间在北京这一边。长话短说，莹莹烛光难以与日月同辉。不幸的是，台湾正是那一点烛光，与它是否民主无关。更重要的是，民主不是万能药，无法治疗糟糕的经济，无法解决社会问题。就像是中国的百姓几十年前相信共产主义是万能钥匙一样。他们在河中艰难的探索最终改变了国家前进的方向，可以看看这改变现在带来了什么。当然这样的转变并不是完美的，但是你没法抵赖中国始终在成长。给海峡两岸一点时间，我们最终会看到台湾回归大陆。
 
renardbleu  GCOVERSEAS 44m ago
Yeah, yeah.
If you're not afraid of democracy nor a "small planet", WTF are you waxing lyrical about?
 
 好吧，好吧。
如果你们不害怕民主或者一点”烛光“，那你TM的赞歌在赞美什么？
 
TheEqlaowaizer 1h ago
Beijing get more and more ridiculous by the day.
Have uyou heard the one about the Hong Kong bookwriter that flew to Thailand on vacation to turn himself into Chinese state police instead of catching the metro a few miles to the mainland border?

北京这些天变得越来越可笑了。
你们是否听说了一位香港的作家假期飞到泰国去而不是坐地铁乘几里路穿过大陆的边界向中国的国家警察自首的事？

-------------译者：今天狗过桥-审核者：normalone------------

canbeanybody  Marcedward 3h ago
You are babbling utter rubbish.
Chinese Communist Party is the great leading force for China and the fact Taiwan belongs to China is not going to be changed by whoever "wins" in Taiwan.
Ms Tsai's predecessor has been charged and jailed for massive corruption, and Ms Tsai's metor Mr Lee Teng-Hui considers himself as Japanese while claim massive payout from Taiwanese resources.
The so-called "democracy" in Taiwan is at best the mimic of American "democracy" which does not and will not alter the fact that Taiwan belongs to China.
If not for American brutal military intervention in 1949, Taiwan would have been liberated years ago.
 
 你在咿咿呀呀的说些废话。
中国共产党是中国巨大的领导力量而且事实上台湾属于中国的事实并不会因为任何人在台湾“赢得大选”而改变。
蔡女士的前辈已经为大规模的腐败而被指控和监禁，而蔡女士的地铁（误，可能为tutor导师）李登辉认为他自己是日本人同时声索了大量的台湾资源。
这就是所谓的台湾的“民主”一百分，模仿自美国的“民主”不会也将不会改变台湾属于中国的事实。
如果不是1949年美国残酷的军事干预，台湾也许早已经被解放了。

-------------译者：今天狗过桥-审核者：normalone------------

kgb999again  canbeanybody 2h ago
Taiwan belongs to the people of Taiwan. China needs to get a grip.
I especially love your use of the term "liberated" when you mean "invaded with military force and anyone who doesn't submit to the will of Beijing flat-out killed." How completely liberating.
If America - the nation that militarily defeated Japan in Asia and freed China to be it's own country again - proceeded to prevent China from doing to the people of Taiwan exactly what we had just stopped Japan from doing to the people China .... I'd say America did a really good thing. Twice.

 台湾属于台湾人民，中国需要控制住自己。
我特别喜欢你用的那个专业的字眼“解放”,你的意思是“用军事力量入侵并和平掉任何不顺从北京意志的人”
多么完全地解放！
 如果美国——这个从军事上在亚洲打败了日本并解救了中国的国家——再一次像阻止日本残害中国人民一样阻止中国迫害台湾人民......我会说美国做的非常棒。强调一遍。（JYP组合？）

thomprich 4h ago
The president-elect of Republic Of China warned: “Our democratic system, national identity and international space must be respected. Any forms of suppression will harm the stability of cross-strait relations.” Yet she won't declare independence. Never. I lived in the Science-based Industrial Park in Hsin-Chu where she was an engineer. My students were mid-level employees of the ROC government interested in doing business in America. I once met the Dalai Lama at the First Unitarian Church of Los Angeles and he gave me his India address because he wanted me to send him herbal recipes. I told my students to write to him on the topic of his return to China. They all said that he should. I thought they were insane. But that's how it is. Calling one of my students an Overseas Chinese would be like greeting the POTUS with the N-word.

这位中华民国的总统当选人警告：“我们的民主系统，民族独立和国际空间必须得到尊重，任何形式的打压都将会影响海峡两岸的稳定。“直至目前她没有宣告独立，从没有。当我住在新竹的科学工业园区的时候她还是一名工程师。我的学生们是中华民国政府的中层雇员对在美国做生意非常感兴趣。我曾经在洛杉矶的第一唯一神教堂遇见了达赖喇嘛，他给了我他在印度的地址因为他希望我能寄给他药膳。我告诉我的学生们写信给他讨论关于他回归中国的话题。他们全部认为他应该回去，而我认为他们都是神经病。但就是这么回事，称我的学生为海外华人就像跟奥巴马用黑鬼打招呼。

-------------译者：今天狗过桥-审核者：normalone------------

Knightly  thomprich 4h ago
Our democratic system, national identity and international space must be respected 
LOL . . .
 
 我们的民主系统，民族独立和国际空间必须得到尊重。
哈哈哈.......
 
renardbleu  Knightly 1h ago
Says more about you, doesn't it.

 说明你有问题,不是吗?(回复楼上)

VictorPurinton 5h ago
When China adopts a democratic form of governance, Taiwan will join the mainland.
Not before.

 当中国采用了民主的政府治理方式之后，台湾才会加入大陆。在此之前，台湾不会加入。

manhandled  VictorPurinton 4h ago
Disagree. Even PRC becomes a multi-party elections-based state, to join it is still suicidal for people of Taiwan: for instance, size matters.

我不同意， 即使中华人民共和国成为了一个多党制选举的国家，加入他们对台湾百姓来说依然是自取灭亡的：比如说，大小的问题。

canbeanybody  VictorPurinton 3h ago
The so-called democracy in Taiwan is no more than mimic of American "democracy" which helps American war efforts to attack all others such as Iraq, Syria and Libya.
Mimic of "democracy" may not offer Taiwan any better future. But to work with mainland within the frame of thinking and practice of Chinese ways and Chinese values will.
 
 所谓的台湾的民主不过是模仿美国的“民主”，这个“民主”帮助美国通过战争努力的攻击其他国家，比如伊拉克，叙利亚和利比亚。
模仿的“民主”也许不会为台湾提供任何更好的未来，但是在这个框架下同大陆用中国人的方式和价值观进行思考和实践可以为台湾提供更好的未来。
 
Harry226  canbeanybody 3h ago
. But to work with mainland within the frame of thinking and practice of Chinese ways and Chinese values will. Rubbish. Trying thinking before you display your stupidity...if you can that is.

 但是在这个框架下同大陆用中国人的方式和价值观进行思考和实践可以为台湾提供更好的未来。垃圾废话。在你展示你的SB一面之前尝试思考一下。如果你能思考的话。
 
dats_wat_I_say 5h ago
Give them 25 years and they'll kiss and make up.
 
 给他们25年的时间，他们会和解并亲吻对方的。
 
renardbleu  dats_wat_I_say 1h ago
Make up? KMT has unfinished business with the CCP, sure. But that Civil War nonsense has nothing to do with Taiwan nor its people.

和解？那是国民党同共产党还没有完成的事情。但是荒谬的内战和台湾与台湾人民没有关系。

-------------译者：今天狗过桥-审核者：normalone------------

bbrabbit 5h ago
1. Do you guys know China accounts for more than 40% of Taiwan's total export?
2. Do you guys know Taiwan is the only "country" that has a trade surplus with China on this planet, due to China's unilateral most favored nation treatment towards Taiwan?
Lets see what guts Miss Tsai has. Beijing has a handful of cards to play against Taiwan, while Taiwan has zero cars to play back.
China doesn't t even need to take economic sanctions against Taiwan - a normal fair trade relationship can already cause big trouble to Taiwan's economy.
By the way, Taiwan is never a country. It's Republic of China, whose capital is Nanjing, China. Taiwan is a province, to either ROC or PRC.
A side story: China never forced the pop star to apologize - they did that for China's market. She and the company are free to abandon China's market and leave. Her showing the flag is not the reason why many Chinese people are pissed off.
Some Hong Kong and Taiwanese celebrities like that girl show off on Facebook that they can treat Chinese people like dirt but still make money in China.
That is what angers Chinese.

1.你们这些人知道中国占了台湾总出口的40%还多吗？
2.你们这些人知道因为中国单方面的为台湾提供的最惠国待遇，从而使台湾成为这颗星球上唯一同中国有着贸易顺差的”国家“的事吗？
让我们看看蔡小姐是不是有种。北京有着一手的好牌对抗台湾，而台湾什么牌都没有。
中国甚至不需要经济制裁台湾——一个正常公平的贸易关系已经可以给台湾经济造成大麻烦。
话说回来，台湾从来都不是一个国家。它属是中华民国，首都在南京的中国。台湾只是中华民国或者中华人民共和国的一个省份。
另一个故事：中国从来没有强制歌星道歉——他们道歉是为了中国的市场。周子瑜和JYP公司可以自由的放弃中国的市场然后离开。许多中国人愤怒的原因并不是她挥舞中华民国国旗。
一些香港和台湾的名人们像这个女孩一样在脸书上展示他们可以视中国人为尘土却依然可以从中国挣钱。
这才是激怒中国的原因。

-------------译者：今天狗过桥-审核者：normalone------------

hyperspacer  VictorPurinton 4h ago
Not necessary. For many democracies, it is. For India (world's largest democracy), it is not.
 
 （民主）并不是必需的。对许多民主国家而言，民主是必需品。对印度（世界最大的民主国家）而言，它不是。
 
PaulThtanley  bbrabbit 4h ago
Taiwan isn't the only country that runs a surplus in trade with China. Quite a lot of countries do (underlining the dependence of the mainland on exports to some rich countries and the US in particular)
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/09/16/mapping-the-worlds-winners-and-losers-from-china-trade-deficit-surplus-recent-impact/
What angers the Taiwanese is people like you

 台湾不是唯一拥有对华顺差的国家。相当一部分国家都是（强调了中国大陆在出口上对某些富有国家的依赖，尤其是对美国的依赖）
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/09/16/mapping-the-worlds-winners-and-losers-from-china-trade-deficit-surplus-recent-impact/（我看过了文章数据来源于中国海关）
激怒台湾人的原因是有你这样的人。（凭感觉说话打脸非常疼）