奥巴马广岛之旅引起杜鲁门宿命抉择的辩论 [日本媒体]

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WASHINGTON —Barack Obama’s visit to Hiroshima next week has reignited an emotive debate over former U.S. President Harry Truman’s epoch-making decision to drop the first atomic bomb.

华盛顿——巴拉克·奥巴马下星期将访问广岛，这重燃起人们对美国前总统哈里·杜鲁门投下第一颗原子弹的划时代决定的热情讨论。

On April 25, 1945, 13 days after Franklin Roosevelt’s death thrust Truman into the White House, the strained new commander-in-chief got a startling top secret briefing.
“Within four months we shall in all probability have completed the most terrible weapon ever known in human history, one bomb of which could destroy a whole city,” war secretary Henry Stimson said in a hand-delivered memo.

1945年4月25日，也就是富兰克林·罗斯福去世的13天后，杜鲁门进驻白宫，这个紧张的新首席司令官得收到了一份令人吃惊的绝密简报，“在四个月内，我们将有可能完成迄今所知人类历史上最恐怖的武器的研发，一颗炸弹就能毁掉一个城市”，作战部长Henry Stimson在一份亲手移交的备忘录中说道。

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Until that moment, Truman had no idea about the Manhattan Project to build the world’s first atomic bomb—despite being Roosevelt’s vice president and a former senator who made his name investigating wartime defense contracts.
Within four months, the atomic bomb had been successfully tested, targets had been selected, “Little Boy” and “Fat Man” had been dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing an estimated 214,000 people, and Japan’s Emperor Hirohito had surrendered.

直到那一刻，杜鲁门对制造世界第一颗原子弹的曼哈顿项目一无所知，尽管他是罗斯福的副总统，同时也是因审查战时国防合约而声名远扬前参议员。原子弹终于在四个月内试验成功，攻击目标也确定了，“小男孩”和“胖子”分别投到广岛和长崎，大约214000人丧命，日本裕仁天皇宣布投降。


-------------译者：布拉格鸽子蛋-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

domtoidiMAY. 18, 2016 - 07:13AM JST
"Japan showed no signs of surrender."

“日本没有任何投降的迹象。 ”

What about the peace overture through the Swiss and Portugese months before the bombing? Truman even mentions it in his diary.

那轰炸前几个月通过瑞士和葡萄牙而表现出的和平姿态呢？杜鲁门甚至在日记中提及过。

The terms of surrender in August were the exact same terms offered by the Japanese. Even MacArthur mentioned this when be voiced his disapproval of the bombings, along with the disapprova of the bombingsl by 5-star officers Eisenhower, Leahy, Nimitz, King and Arnold.

八月投降条款与日本提出的条款完全一致。麦克阿瑟在表示不赞成轰炸时甚至提过这个，同样不赞成轰炸的还有5星将军艾森豪威尔，莱西，尼米兹，金和阿诺德。

The 5 star officers at the time said It wasn't necessary and Japan was beaten and would surrender without a full-scale invasion. But you'll see posters here who think that they know better than these men.

当时这些五星将军说这完全没有必要，日本已经受到猛烈攻击，不用发起全面侵略他们就会投降。但是你看这里的网友们以为自己比这些将军知道的还多。

This is going to be yet another rehash of the same myths over and over. This historically inaccurate article sets the tone.

同样的杜撰将一次又一次地改头换面。这种歪曲历史的文章奠定了基调。

"The first casualty when war comes, is truth" - Hiram Johnson, US Senator

“战争来临时真相成了第一个牺牲品。”-希拉姆.约翰逊，美国参议员。

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DisillusionedMAY. 18, 2016 - 07:13AM JST
in Japan, where a majority of Obama’s hosts still believe the mass bombing of civilians was unnecessary and perhaps a crime.
A crime? How about what the Japanese did in China, South Korea, Taiwan, the Phillipines and Singapore? Not to mention the totally unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor. Yes, Japan was the victim in WW2, but it was a victim of its own stupidity.

在日本，奥巴马的大部分东道主依然认为，对平民大规模的轰炸是不必要的，这更多是一种犯罪。
一种犯罪？那么日本人在中国、南韩、台湾、菲律宾和新加坡这些地方干了些什么？更别说有关于整个珍珠港的无端袭击了。是的，日本是二战的受害者，不过那是它自己作做自受。

domtoidiMAY. 18, 2016 - 07:24AM JST
"...totally unprovoked attack..." Oh my.

“…对珍珠港无端的袭击…”OH,我的天。

MoonrakerMAY. 18, 2016 - 07:26AM JST
By the end of the war Japan's leadership was so factionalised that anything except the emperor's voice saying it was over would not have ended it. Some military factions were determined to fight on to the end in any capacity possible and regarded it as betrayal of the country and those who had died to surrender. Some even tried mightily to stop the emperor's recorded message getting out.

直到战争结束，日本的高层是相当地派系斗争的，除了天皇的声音是有决定性的以外，任何东西也不能使战争停止。一些军事派系决心不惜一切抗争到最后，以及视那些死都要投降的人为国家的背叛者。有些甚至还极力阻碍天皇录音的播出。（译者注：指1945年8月15日正午，日本天皇向全国广播，接受波茨坦公告、实行无条件投降的诏书。）

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Black SabbathMAY. 18, 2016 - 07:27AM JST
What about the peace overture through the Swiss and Portugese months before the bombing? Truman even mentions it in his diary.

轰炸前日本通过葡萄牙和瑞士所提出的和平提议又算什么？杜鲁门的日记甚至提到过它。

What about these peace overtures? Do you know who made them? Do you know what was being asked?

这些和平提议算什么？你知道是谁提出的吗？你知道里面的具体提议内容吗？

sensei258MAY. 18, 2016 - 07:27AM JST
The key word there is "civilians". The wanton slaughter of countless non-combatant civilians is the crime. Regardless of whether their gov't/military started it.

那里的关键字是“平民”。对无数非战斗平民的肆意屠杀就是犯罪。不管战争是不是由他们自己的国家/军队发起。

sfjp330MAY. 18, 2016 - 07:31AM JST
Did IJA distinguished the differences in slaughter of civilians in Nanking, Manila or Southeast Asia during 1930-1945? Facts are Japanese military didn't care about civilians. They were brutal.

（回复楼上）
日本帝国军在1930-1945年间屠杀南京，马尼拉和东南亚的时候有差别区分么？事实是日本军队不关心平民。他们很残忍。

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Black SabbathMAY. 18 2016 - 07:37AM JST
The terms of surrender in August were the exact same terms offered by the Japanese.

“八月投降条款和日本所提议的一模一样。”

This is simply false. The ideas floated -- of which their were multiple -- all rejected 'unconditional surrender': principally Imperial Japan wanted to maintain its independence (no occupation no disarmament) preserve the Imperial System (with the Divinity of the Emperor) and no war crimes trials.

这是假的。（关于投降的）想法非常多，而且是有悖于无条件投降的：原则上日本帝国要保证独立（无占领，无缴械），保留帝国体系（保留天皇的神圣性），同时无战犯审判。

In short the 'peace feelers' represented the desire for a do-over. Japan wished to set back geopolitical map to 1932 keep its independence and its system.

简单的说，所谓的“试图媾和的行动”代表了（日本）重返过去的愿望，日本希望恢复到1932的地缘政治版图，保证自身的独立，保留自己的体系。

The notion that Japan was ready to surrender before the dual shock of two atomic attacks and the Soviet Declaration is fantasy. Not history.

关于日本在两个原子弹和苏联宣战的双重打击之前投降的说法是一种幻想，而非历史事实。

CrucialSMAY. 18 2016 - 07:44AM JST
What's the point of arguing it? It happened 70 years ago and nothing will ever change it from having happened.

讨论这些的重点是什么？它发生70年前，而且无论什么都无法改变已经发生的事情。

I do want to add that civilians were never the target in the bombings of Hiroshima Nagasaki Osaka Tokyo ect. These cities were centers of manufacturing of material that supported the Japanese war effort. Civilian casualties were unfortunate collateral when trying to eliminate Japan's ability to conduct warfare.

我要指出的是平民从来就不是广岛，长崎，大阪，东京等轰炸的目标，这些城市是日本的战争制造业的中心，平民伤亡只是消灭日本战争潜力的不幸附带损伤而已。

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YubaruMAY. 18, 2016 - 07:48AM JST
“I think it’s hard to look back and second-guess it too much.”
Really? Seems like everyone likes to do it. Yet, there are few alive today that can share their experiences from either side and everyone has an opinion based upon their own education and beliefs.
I for one like to think that I can see things from both sides, having close relatives and friends from both sides sharing stories and experiences from preceding, during, and after the war.
I personally wish that they would not have been used. Yet I do not think apologies are necessary from Obama either.
I would rather there be a message of peace and a message about getting rid of all nuclear weapons in the world, and then I would like to see Abe go and visit the Arizona memorial at Pearl Harbor and do the same!

“我认为很难再回头看然后再判断了”
你认真的？每个人都喜欢这样做好吧。虽然当时双方到现在还活着的都已经没几个了，所以很难再听当事人说他们自己的经历。
但我自认为我从两边都能看这个事，而且我还有来自两边的亲戚朋友，他们告诉我好多战前，战时和战后的经历。
我个人希望没用核弹。但我不认为奥巴马该道歉。
我觉得世界上要是有个和平宣言或一个无核武宣言就好了，而且我想看到安倍去珍珠港的亚利桑那纪念馆前做做同样的事。

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sfjp330MAY. 18, 2016 - 07:49AM JST
If you look at the history, the real problem is how U.S. handle the peace treaty after the WWII. PRC's Zhou Enlai supported the Soviet proposal that all states that participated with their armed forces against Japan should prepare the treaty. Instead, the U.S. had monopolized the task to exclude China. Why did the U.S. wanted to exclude China in 1951 SF Treaty? On the surface of course the Communist Party was now in power and U.S. and Chinese troops were fighting each other in Korea. But Britain also had troops in Korea and yet was prepared to invite the PRC to the conference. It was actually the Soviet Union that was behind the North Korean attack on the south, yet the U.S. permitted the Soviet Union actively to participate in the conference. China suffered the longest and the deepest from Japanese aggression. The SF Treaty divided China with numerous other territorial disputes that the U.S. used in justifying its continuing presence in the region.

如果你看看历史，你会发现问题根源在于美国怎么处理二战后和平条约的。中国的周恩来支持苏联的“所有参与对抗日本的国家都应该起草条约”的提议。然而，美国独占了条约起草工作还把中国排除在外。为什么美国不想要中国参与起草和平条约呢？一看就知道，首先是因为共产党执政，再是美中部队在朝鲜半岛打仗。但是英国当时在朝鲜半岛也有部队，并且打算邀请中国参与。朝鲜攻击韩国是因为它背后站着苏联，但美国却允许苏联来参会。中国在日本侵略中受损最长最深。那个条约却又给中国领土完整制造障碍，然后美国就可以有理由继续保持它在该地区的存在。

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cevin7MAY. 18, 2016 - 07:53AM JST
What's often overlooked is people who led normal life then in Japan. I mean people who had nothing to do with the war. Maybe the reason that they use the bombs was right, but you can't say the consequences they caused is right. I don't think Obama should apologize, however, I don't like to hear people saying "It was right thing to do.", because it ignores the lives lost. Don't criticize me saying "Japan killed a lot of innocent people.". I know that, and I already fell terrible about it.

总是被忽略的是当时被炸的日本普通人，我是说那些和战争无关的人。也许他们用原子弹的理由是好的，但你不能说他们造成的结果也是好的。我不觉得奥巴马该道歉，但是，我不想听见别人说“当时那就是对的”。因为这么说忽略了生命的损失。别批评我说什么“日本杀了好多无辜的人”。我都知道，而且我已经为此感到心疼了。

6wingsMAY. 18, 2016 - 08:03AM JST
Let us never forget wartime atrocities! For the sake of posterity! For the sake of humanity!
Well... unless it's inconvenient or uncomfortable for us... In that case we should just quietly destroy the evidence and pretend it never happened.

让我们永不忘记战争的践踏！为了繁荣！为了人类！
额... 除非它让我们感到不便或不爽... 要是真不爽的话，我们应该静悄悄的毁掉证据，假装什么也没发生。

StrangerlandMAY. 18, 2016 - 08:05AM JST
The way I look at it, is that it's like kicking a dog. Sure, the dog shouldn't bite you, and if it does, it's wrong, but you only have yourself to blame, because you kicked the dog.
Japan kicked the American dog, and Japan paid for that action. The result was a direct result of Japanese action. Japan only has Japan to blame.

依我看，这件事就像踢了个狗。你把狗踢开狗不该咬你的，要是它真咬了，那算它错，但是你只能怪你自己，因为你先踢狗的。
日本踢了美国狗，然后日本为此付出了代价。所以可以说这是日本行为的直接后果。日本要怪就怪自己咯。

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sfjp330MAY. 18 2016 - 08:14AM JST
Gary Raynor MAY. 18 2016 - 07:41AM JST I like Obama but this visiting of Hiroshima is a big mistake especially with the present Japanese government and its large contingent of atrocity deniers and just look how it's being played out in the Japanese media 'aren't we Japanese magnanimous we don't need the US to apologize for their war crime?'.

我喜欢观海，但是对长刀的访问是个巨大错误，尤其是考虑到如今的日本政府和一大批否认战争罪行的代表，看看现在日本媒体上宣传的东西就知道了： 我们日本人是不是特别大度？我们从来没要求美国人为他们的战争罪行道歉。

If you look at the history after end of WWII Japan spent basically from 1950's through mid 1990s under the same conservative LDP government. There was no change in thought or attitude. At best the Japanese government was able to buy off the Chinese and Koreans providing loans and grants while those governments kept nationalistic sentiments tamped down. When the LDP hold was toppled in the 1990s the coalition government was so weak that even though it began reconciliation with a formal apology it couldn't make much progress before the LDP came back to power one year later. Japan needed a strong center-left party to lead the way. Unfortunately Murayama and the Japanese Social Democrats were simply too weak. Japan's delay in the process has only made it more difficult for any real reconciliation. Had they done it back when Japan was at its peak Chinese and Korean nationalism were somewhat under control and Japan had bought some goodwill through economic aid they might have gotten their message across more smoothly. Instead now you have Japan in a weak position China and Korea ascendant and both those nations experiencing near-rabid nationalistic sentiments it'll be much harder for all involved to come together.

看一下战后日本历史就知道了，从20世纪50年代到90年代中期，日本都是保守的自民党执政，无论（关于战争的）想法和态度都没有什么变化。在巅峰时期，日本通过向中韩两国提供贷款和补助使两国政府降低本国的爱国主义情绪。20世纪90年代自民党下台，上台的联合政府是个弱势政府，即使为了和中韩和解而进行正式道歉，也无法真正推动进程，而一年后自民党重新上台。日本需要一个强力的中左翼政党执政，但是村山富士和他的社民党太弱了。日本在这个进程上的延误导致了此后任何的和解都变得愈加困难。假如当时日本巅峰时期完成了这一进程，中韩两国的爱国主义会得到控制，而日本也会通过提供经济援助买到一些善意，三方的交流也会变得更加顺畅。而现在日本正处在弱势的位置，中韩两国正在上升，两国都面临爱国主义情绪接近失控的局面，有关三方关于历史问题的争议变得更加困难。