中国修改中日战争日期以促进爱国主义教育 [日本媒体]

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：yearning------------



BEIJING —China will bring forward the start date of the country’s war with Japan by six years in education textbooks a move which will bolster patriotic education state media reported.

北京——国家媒体报道中国将把教科书中与日本的战争起始时间提前六年，此举将有利于爱国主义教育。

The Chinese War Against Japanese Aggression China’s name for its war with Japan will be now be 14 years long from 1931 to 1945 not the previously taught eight years China’s education ministry told schools on Jan 3.

抗日战争，中国如此称呼它与日本战争的名称。现在这场战争将有14年之久，而不是之前教的8年。一月3日中国教育部如此告知各学校。


-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Dan LewisJAN. 11 2017 - 04:11PM JST
I thought you had to win the war before you could write history...

我想在书写历史之前你得赢得那场战争。

firellyJAN. 11 2017 - 04:23PM JST
“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
― George Orwell 1984

“谁掌控过去谁就掌控未来。谁掌控现在谁就掌控过去。”乔治.奥威尔 1984

PTownsendJAN. 11 2017 - 04:30PM JST
I thought you had to win
China sided with the Allies who using your term 'won' the war. China's role in WW2 has long been given little attention for political reasons. Millions of Chinese (numbers vary depending on source) were killed during the war. (Yes many were killed by their own people.)
Once again numbers vary but hundreds of thousands of Japanese troops were assigned to China during the war. This limited Japan's ability to use these men in other areas of the Pacific thereby aiding the Allies.
China contributed hugely to the Allies 'winning' cause and paid a hugely for doing so.

回复楼上那个说“你们得先赢得战争”的家伙
中国是盟军一边的，就是使用你的术语“胜利”的那帮人。中国在二战中的角色一直因政治原因而被忽视。几百万中国人（数据出入依照原始资料）在战争中被杀。（是的，很多都是他们自己国家的人杀的。）
数据仍有出入，但这次战争中几十万的日军被派往中国。这限制了日本用这些人去帮助太平洋战争其他区域盟友的能力。
中国为盟军的胜利作出了巨大贡献，付出了巨大牺牲。

 -------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

inkochiJAN. 11 2017 - 04:31PM JST
Maybe Japanese and Chinese history textbook writers should just get a room or get counselling or something.

也许日本和中国的历史课本作者应该挪地方或者请个家教或者啥的。

smithinjapanJAN. 11 2017 - 04:43PM JST
Dan Lewis: "I thought you had to win the war before you could write history..."
Sure hasn't stopped Japan from re-writings its books.

回复一楼那位
确实是这样，不过并没有阻止日本改写它的课本。

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

roughneckJAN. 11 2017 - 05:31PM JST
It is still ongoing. Chinese are always at war! Everybody is Kung-fu fighting!

战争还在继续，中国人一直处于战争中！每个人都是功夫高手！

dcog9065JAN. 11 2017 - 05:39PM JST
This isn't such a big change TBH many historians today consider WW1 and WW2 one big decades long war with an armistice in the middle considering how intertwined the two are. The 1931 and 1937 wars could easily be seen in the same context however it's arguable whether Japan had the same intentions in 1931 as they did in 1937 where they ramped up very violently and aimed for all out conquest

不是多大的改变，老实说。现在很多历史学家认为一战和二战是一场长达几十年的大战，只是中间休战了下而已，思考这两次战争是怎么相互交错的。可以显见1931年和1937年的战争拥有相同的背景。不过日本1931年的目的和1937年是否相同依然存疑，那会他们已经变得极端残暴妄图征服一切。

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Mike CritchleyJAN. 11 2017 - 07:16PM JST
Totally understandable that the powers that be in China...whose biggest fear is the general population actually calling the leadership on their BS...would want people to focus on the war. Instead of...say...the 45 million who died under their hero Mao.

完全可以理解中国的极权者们。他们最大的恐惧就是害怕自己的谎言被大众看穿。他们的鬼话...就是要让人们专注于那场战争。这样就没人说...在他们英雄毛泽东的统治下死了4500万人

Fact_checkJAN. 11 2017 - 07:18PM JST
North Korea = Hardcore Brainwashing China = Softer Brainwashing

朝鲜=硬洗脑  中国=软洗脑

thepersoniamnowJAN. 11 2017 - 07:39PM JST
Fine by me. Why don't we respond by teaching language maths science and social skills better and in a more modern way. That'll show em! ( and you can bet it will in the long run)

对我来说没啥问题。我们为啥不用一个更现代的方式教好语文、数学、科学和社会技能来回答他们。那些会告诉他们谁是对的！（长远看来你们会信的）

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

donkusaiJAN. 11 2017 - 07:39PM JST
Start dates of wars aren't always clear. Why do we say WW2 started with the 1939 invasion of Poland yet the 1938 invasion of Czechoslovakia was clearly a part of the same action. There's a good argument for say WW2 started in 1938. So simply changing the recognised start date is no biggie. The only thing that leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth is that "the move will also bolster patriotic education"... Changing the date to make it more accurate - great. Changing the date to try to make people more patriotic - umm... no.

战争的起始日期经常不太清楚，为什么我们说二战始于1939年波兰被入侵，而1938年捷克斯洛伐克被入侵很明显也是这场战争的一部分。有很好的理由说明二战始于1938年。所以单纯的更改被认可的起始日期是没啥问题的。唯一让人恶心的是“此举也将促进爱国主义教育”...更改日期使之更准确-很好。更改时间是为了让人们更爱国-呃呃呃...不好

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

YubaruJAN. 11 2017 - 07:53PM JST
Hey to folks from Korea the war started in what 1905? Let's not forget either that Japan rarely calls WWII World War 2. It is more commonly referred to here as the Pacific War

韩国的乡亲们好，战争起于啥子1905哦？我们别忘了，日本很少称呼二战为二战，这边一般更常称为太平洋战争。

Changing the date to make it more accurate - great. Changing the date to try to make people more patriotic - umm... no.

更改日期使之更准确-很好。更改日期为了让人们更爱国-不好

What's the difference? Anything being taught about history in China is all about patriotism anyway and Japan is no different either. Abe wants to make Japan into a victim to make Japanese feel less guilty and ashamed and increase patriotism here too.

这话有什么不同呢？不管怎样中国教的关于历史的任何东西都是为了爱国主义，日本也是一样。安倍还不是想把日本打造成一个受害者的模样，让日本人的愧疚感和羞耻感减轻点，增强爱国主义精神。

Patriotism is not the problem. Never has been nationalism now that's a totally different story.

爱国主义并不是啥问题。从来不是民族主义，那是完全不同的事情。

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

gokai_wo_manekuJAN. 11 2017 - 07:58PM JST
Teachers in Japan are very leftist. At my high school teachers were not satisfied with the story of the war in the history books so they made "supplementary materials" (including pictures) showing what actually happened. Nanjing 731 etc. I still remember some of the pictures from 20 years ago to this day.

日本的老师非常左倾。在我的高中时代，老师们不满于历史书那些关于战争的谎言，所以他们制作了辅助材料（包含图片）展示了那些真实发生的事情。如南京大屠杀，731部队等等。20年前至今，我仍然记得其中的一些图片。

YubaruJAN. 11 2017 - 08:07PM JST
Teachers in Japan are very leftist. At my high school teachers were not satisfied with the story of the war in the history books so they made "supplementary materials" (including pictures) showing what actually happened. Nanjing 731 etc. I still remember some of the pictures from 20 years ago to this day.
The key to this remark is at the very end......20 years ago! You will be very hard pressed to find HS JHS or University Prof's here willing to go out on a limb and teach anything but the "official" line now.
Teachers in Japan are or have become very naive and many far off the right deep end as well. ANd it has been changing over the past 30 years. As there are very few teachers left in the classrooms that had educators themselves who experienced the war they are all the product of post war pacifism.

回楼上
这条评论妙就妙在神结尾......20年前！你很难再在这里的高中、初中或者大学教授里头找到愿意教授官方立场以外东西的老师了。
日本的老师非常幼稚或者变得幼稚了，并且深陷右翼很久了。这情况已经改变了超过30年了。因为教室里基本已经没有经历过战争的教育工作者们剩下了，现在的基本都是战后和平主义的产物。

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Kazuaki ShimazakiJAN. 11 2017 - 08:10PM JST
Though I'm suspicious of the 1984ish approach Westerners have also argued that the start of the Sino-Japanese war should more fairly be set at 1931.
I'll also give a rarely given perspective and that moving the beginning to 1931 allows the 1937 series of events to be viewed more obxtively while avoiding a lot of thorns for the Chinese.
Because's here's the rub about starting it at Marco Polo did it start when a Japanese soldier went missing or did it start when some Chinese soldier took it upon himself to fire in the general direction of a Japanese exercise?
And if you take the Japanese version of events which will be the one reported to their headquarters is their proposed solution - that the Chinese retreat south of the bridge fire the responsible commander and restrain overblown anti-Japanese attitudes really that unreasonable from the viewpoint of avoiding further incidents?
And whether in any case considering the Nationalists were in a state where they are rapidly improving their ability to fight but really needed at least a year or two more to be ready whether picking a fight with the Japanese that year was not a totally moronic decision. And the Communists who always viewed their brief kidnapping of Chiang Kai-Shek as the key that made the Nationalists decide to fight the Japanese ... isn't that persuading the Nationalists to make a choice that's utterly disastrous for the Chinese people?
Changing the start date to 1931 avoids all these problems.

虽然我也怀疑1984ish的途径。西方人也曾争论中日战争的起点定于1931年也许更合理。
我也来提个很少见的观点，把战争的开始日期改到1931年可以让1937的一连串事件看起来更客观同时还能让中国人避免很多刺激。
因为摩擦始于卢沟桥事变。起因到底是一个日本士兵失踪还是因为某些中国士兵自己向日本人训练的方向开火？
如果你看日本人关于这个事件的版本，那是一份交给给他们总司令部的解决方案-中国人撤退到卢沟桥以南，撤销了负责的指挥官并且控制过火的反日态度。从避免事态恶化的角度看，这些行为真的那么不合理吗？
不论如何，考虑到国民党处于一个快速提升实力去战斗的状态，但确实需要至少一年或两年以上来准备，无论那一年选择与日本作战是不是一个愚蠢的决定。而共产党们总是认为是他们突然的绑架了蒋介石才驱使国民党决心对日作......难道不正是这个劝告让国民党做出了让中国人民完全陷入灾难的选择？
把战争的开始日期改到1931年避免了所有这些问题。

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

BertieWoosterJAN. 11 2017 - 08:24PM JST
Whichever country it is doesn't make any difference.
History is "HIS STORY."
It's just a story folks.
Whether it's about the Spanish Armada Pearl Harbour Comfort women Vietnam or 9/11.
It's either a lie or the truth WITH BITS MISSING.

无论哪个国家都没有什么不同。
History就是“他的故事”
只是个故事，乡亲们。
无论是西班牙无敌舰队、珍珠港、慰安妇、越南战争还是911事件
要么是个谎言，要么是段不完整的真相。

Robert EmmettJAN. 11 2017 - 08:30PM JST
Well I must say that's very accommodating of the Chinese authorities... in the age of globalization what calendar best suits China's sense ability...The lunarJulianor Gregorian

我必须得说中国政府很能适应......在全球化的时代哪种历法最适合中国的感觉.......阴历儒略历还是格里历？

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

UdondashiJAN. 11 2017 - 08:30PM JST
That's nice. Japanese people don't need China but China needs technology and money from Japanese companies. Go ahead!

很好。日本人民不需要中国单中国需要日本公司的技术和资金。加油！

StrangerlandJAN. 11 2017 - 08:32PM JST
Japanese people don't need China but China needs technology and money from Japanese companies.
Japan need Chinese manufacturing as much as China needs Japanese technology.

回楼上
日本需要中国制造就像中国需要日本技术一样。

Jay QueJAN. 11 2017 - 08:32PM JST
The global war against communism began in earnest in 1917 alrhough its noxious roots spread as far back as both the communards in Paris as well as the snake in the Garden of Eden.

全球对抗共产主义的战争正式开启是在1917年，虽然它的毒根早已播散，就像巴黎公社在巴黎，蛇在伊甸园一样。

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

AzzprinJAN. 11 2017 - 08:38PM JST
donkusaiJan. 11 2017 - 07:39PM JST
Start dates of wars aren't always clear. Why do we say WW2 started with the 1939 invasion of Poland yet the 1938 invasion of Czechoslovakia was clearly a part of the same action. There's a good argument for say WW2 started in 1938
The invasion of Czechoslovakia was a war between two countries in europe as UK and France failed to act then.
When Poland was invaded the UK France their colonies and allies declared war on Germany spreading from a local war between two countries to a war involving countries around the world.

回donkusai的评论
入侵捷克斯洛伐克只是两个国家之间的战争，而那时英法未能采取行动阻止。
当波兰被入侵时英法及他们的殖民地和盟国向德国宣战，把两个国家之间的局部战争扩大成了席卷全球的世界大战。

 -------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

toshikoJAN. 11 2017 - 08:39PM JST
China can start from Mongolian attacks to Japan. And japaane de two attacks to China then WW II.

中国可以从蒙古时期（元朝？）攻击日本。日本攻击中国两次然后就是二战。

Cogito Ergo SumJAN. 11 2017 - 08:43PM JST
I've always wondered how countries around Japanhitherto have let it suppress the true history of events. I am glad that they no longer sit passively and let Japan wax lyrical the evil filthy lies which they have been using as a bludgeon stick to propagate their " Superiority " against other peoples. As regards Japan the only TRUE thread through the history of time is their propensity to tell lies. Unforgivably heavy and shamelessly evil lies and deceit is their stock- in-trade.

我一直想知道日本周边国家迄今为止是怎么让日本就这样镇压历史的真相的。我很高兴现在他们不再坐视日本粉饰他们挥着大棒传播所谓“优越性”的邪恶肮脏的谎言。至于日本贯穿史今的唯一真相就是他们爱说谎的癖好。永远不可原谅，不知羞耻的邪恶谎言和欺骗是他们的惯用伎俩。

toshikoJAN. 11 2017 - 08:59PM JST
@COGITO: Have you ever read Any History books in Japan? Mention the name of only one book lies are written you mentioned.

楼上的，你读过哪本日本的历史书？说一本像你说的那样写的书名来看看。

-------------译者：徐三十一-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

lucabrasiJAN. 11 2017 - 08:59PM JST
@gokai
How is showing "what actually happened" in any way "leftist"?
You appear to be swallowing the right-wing idea that anyone asking awkward questions is some kind of commie.

回复gokai
“左倾”又是怎么反映“真实发生的事情”的？
你好像被灌输了右翼的思想：凡是问些不合时宜的问题的人就是共产主义者。

StrangerlandJAN. 11 2017 - 09:14PM JST
Bolt Tightening jobs does not seem to be a most challenging and difficult task. Japanese companies can open a factory in any country of asia.
Other Asian countries don't have the same factories supplies and costs and quality that china does. Which is exactly why my company does our manufacturing there instead of in another country. Why do you think so many Japanese companies do their manufacturing there.

螺丝紧固看起来不是什么有挑战性的高难任务。日本公司是可以在亚洲任何国家开厂。但其他亚洲国家却没有中国这样的工厂产品、成本和质量。这就是我公司要在那里生产的原因。为何你会认为有很多日本公司在那些国家生产。

-------------译者：willdemon-审核者：徐三十一------------

tinawatanabeJAN. 11 2017 - 10:03PM JST
Let's not forget either that Japan rarely calls WWII World War 2. It is more commonly referred to here as the Pacific War

请大家不要忘了，日本极少用二次世界大战这个名称。日本更经常称之为太平洋战争。

the Greater East Asia War is Japanese name the Pacific War is the name Americans use.

日本人称之为大东亚战争，美国人才称之为太平洋战争。

ShingolliraJAN. 11 2017 - 10:09PM JST
And that's how they write a history. Classic move by Chinese government.

这是中国政府编写历史的老套路。

Geoff GillespieJAN. 11 2017 - 10:09PM JST
Tell a lie long and loud enough and it has the peculiar ability to morph into the truth. In reality the truth is ultimately what we want it to be. Japan has like every other nation in the world at one time or another told its fair share of lies. This is really no different...

大声的宣扬，不停地叙说，谎言也会变成真相。现实就是，历史最终都会变成我们想它成为的样子。和其他国家一样，日本也不止一次的散布谎言。所有的国家都是一个样。