日本谋求削减对美国军队的东道国支援费 [日本媒体]

Japan seeks cut in host-nation support for U.S. forces

日本谋求削减对美国军队的东道国支援费



TOKYO —

东京---

Japan is seeking a major reduction in its host-nation financial support for U.S. forces stationed in Japan, but Washington reportedly hopes Tokyo will ramp up its contribution in light of China’s military buildup, Japanese government sources said.

日本正在谋求减少对驻日美军的东道国支援经费。但是从日本政府的消息灵通人士得到的消息，据传闻华盛顿希望东京在应对中国军事崛起中做出更大的贡献。

Japan, struggling to restore its financial health, is apparently calling for a decrease of more than 50 billion yen ($415 million) from fiscal year 2016, beginning next April, from the current approximate 190 billion yen yearly spend, according to the sources.

据消息来源，正在努力复兴经济的日本明确要求从明年四月的2016财年的目前约1900亿日元的年度费用中降低500亿日元（4.15亿美元）的费用。

The foreign and defense departments of the two countries have been holding negotiations since July to define a new pact authorizing Japan’s host-nation support, as the current deal will expire at the end of March, they said. The next negotiating session is likely to take place in early November.
Japan is seeking a basic agreement in the negotiations by mid-December before compilation of fiscal 2016 budget, they said.

两国的外交和国防部门从七月开始就在商讨签订一个新的条约来规定日本的东道国支援费，目前的协议将在三月底到期。下一阶段的谈判将在十一月底进行。日本谋求在2016年度预算编制工作之前的十二月中旬在谈判中达成基本共识。

Of the salaries Japan is currently paying for about 22,000 workers at U.S. military bases in the country, Tokyo hopes for a reduction in its payment to some 5,800 people working at supermarkets, restaurants and entertainment facilities, including bowling alleys, servicing U.S. military personnel, according to a government source.

据政府消息来源，日本目前给在美军基地内工作的22000名工人支付工资，东京希望减少在超市，饭店和娱乐场所包括保龄球场为美军提供服务的5800人的工资。

Japan also wants a reduction in its payment for utility fees incurred by U.S. military facilities, the source said.

这一消息来源说，日本还想减少美军军事设施产生的公共事务费用的相关款项。

Japan’s financial burden is expected to increase under its recently-enacted security legislation. “Unless the host-nation support is decreased to make up for (the expected increase), it would be difficult to get public backing,” a Japanese Defense Ministry source said.

在执行安保法案后，日本的经济负担预计会增加。
“除非减少东道国支援费来弥补（预计会增加的费用），否则很难获得公众的支持，”日本国防部的消息人士说。

Washington has also paid more for its forces in Japan due to the deployment of resources like its two state-of-the-art Aegis destroyers, the sources said.

据消息来源所说，由于像部署了两艘最先进的宙斯盾驱逐舰（等原因），华盛顿已经为它在日本的军事部署支付了越来越多的费用。

© KYODO

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japan4lifeOct. 24, 2015 - 04:24PM JST
Those 5,800 workers that the J-Govt. is talking about are IHA (Indirect Hire Agreement) workers. The J-Govt. should have never agreed to pay the salaries of those workers in the first place because they work for AAFES, MWR and MCCS which are organizations that are businesses that sell products and services inside the bases and generate a large amount of income and can afford to and should be paying the salaries of their Japanese workers. The Japanese Govt. should only be paying for MLC (Master Labor Contract) employees.

日本政府所说的那5800工人是关于IHA（非直接雇佣协议）的工人。日本政府当初就不该同意为这些人支付工资，因为他们为AAFES（译注：The Army & Air Force Exchange Service， 陆军空军贸易服务，是美陆军和空军遍布各地军事基地的零售商），MWR（译注：Morale、Welfare、Recreation program，士气，福利与娱乐项目的简称，是美军设立的专门为驻外美军服务的商业组织）和MCCS（译注：Marine Corps Community Services，海军陆战队社区服务，为海军陆战队提供生活服务的商业机构）工作，这些组织是在基地内销售产品和服务的商业组织，赚取了大量的收入，有能力支付也应该支付日本工人的工资。日本政府只应该为MLC（主权劳动协议）的工人支付工资。

harvey pekarOct. 24, 2015 - 04:41PM JST
Really, America taking money to be in Japan makes America look stupider than it does Japan. Heck, Americans should be more upset than the Japanese.

真的，美国在日本谈钱让美国看起来比他在日本的所作所为更傻。真见鬼，美国人应该比日本人更闹心。

Hear me out. America's tax dollars can be better spent than on defending wealthy allies who are more than capable of protecting themselves. America should just leave.

听我说完。与其防守富有的足以有能力保护自己的盟友，美国的税收有更好的地方花，美国人应该立刻离开。

Receiving billions to be here in Japan makes no sense when the finances are broken down, because Americans are paying more than ever to be in countries that realistically don't need them or want them, and these countries are saving money. Instead of spending billions and billions on their own military, they pay a few billion to house America's.

当经济下滑的时候在日本收入几十亿美元没有任何意义，因为美国在这个不需要他们或不想要他们的国家花了更多的钱，这些国家省了钱。他们不用为自己的军队花钱了，只需要花点钱给美军盖房子。

70,000 US troops throughout Europe. Europe doesn't need this large of an American force and couple that with the fact that Obama has ordered more troops throughout Asia.

70000名美军士兵遍布欧洲。欧洲不需要这么多美军，再加上美军下令在亚洲部署更多军队的现实。

The end result is that Americans pay more. Obama's defense budget will cost every American nearly $2,000 next year. The figure rises by hundreds of dollars when one accounts for homeland security, payments to veterans, and the few billion dollars tucked away in the Department of Energy for the nation's bloated nuclear arsenal.

这么做的结果就是美国花费的更多。欧巴马明年的国防预算将花费每名美国人2000美元。当考虑到本土防御，支付退伍老兵费用，因过度膨胀的核武库而被能源部门侵吞的数十亿美元，这一数字还会上升数百美元，

All told, every American will likely shell out more than $2,700 on spending classified as national defense. That is at least 2½ times what the British spend, five times more than what the Germans spend, and six times what the Japanese spend.

总的来说，每一个美国人将很可能以保卫国家的名义支付超过2700美元。这是英国人的2.5倍，德国人的5倍，日本人的6倍。

American troops will continue to be tasked with policing the world because of outdated beliefs, and American taxpayers will be on the hook to pay for it.

出于过时的信仰，美国军队还会继续扮演世界警察，美国纳税人还会继续为此买单。

bass4funkOct. 24, 2015 - 08:13PM JST
America should just leave.
That would be a very bad idea.

美国应该立即离开。
这是个非常糟糕的主意。

toshikoOct. 24, 2015 - 08:33PM JST
@bass4funkOCT. 24, 2015 - 08:13PM JST America should just leave. That would be a very bad idea.
Write why.

楼上，说说为什么？

yamashiOct. 25, 2015 - 11:21AM JST
@bass4funk"That would be a very bad idea".
For Americans.

对美国来讲是馊主意。

qwertyjapanOct. 25, 2015 - 05:21AM JST
@SmithinJapan: I don't recognize the need for any US military presence, particularly in Okinawa. And I don't want my taxes paying for it.

我不认为美军的存在有任何必要，特别是冲绳（译注：即中国琉球）。我不想我的税用在这上面。

bjohnson23Oct. 24, 2015 - 06:33PM JST
50 billion yen ($415 million) My tax yen at work but cut the MLC workforce by half as it doesn’t take 6 people to cut a shrub.
Of the salaries Japan is currently paying for about 22,000 workers at U.S. military bases in the country, Tokyo hopes for a reduction in its payment to some 5,800 people working at supermarkets, restaurants and entertainment facilities, including bowling alleys, servicing U.S. military personnel
Story needs to add the MLC employees working at the base to the number as there are about more than half about 75% labor workforce is supported by the above costs and the others are paid by US dollars that once used to be paid to US workers.

RE: Japan4Liffe: Those 5,800 workers that the J-Govt. is talking about are IHA (Indirect Hire Agreement) workers. The J-Govt. should have never agreed to pay the salaries of those workers in the first place because they work for AAFES, MWR and MCCS which are organizations that are businesses that sell products and services inside the bases and generate a large amount of income and can afford to and should be paying the salaries of their Japanese workers. The Japanese Govt. should only be paying for MLC (Master Labor Contract) employees Wrong my yen pays enough to the these lazy
MLC workers of which many don’t care about supporting a base but their own pockets Seriously does anyone need to be at a job for over 20 yrs? Please, how many MLC ‘s does the base need to cut a shrub, more than 6? Paint a wall? 6-8 people? What about repairing a lock on a door? 5 MLCs does it really take that many people? That is abuse of my yen

RE: Harvey Peker: Really, America taking money to be in Japan makes America look stupider than it does Japan. Heck, Americans should be more upset than the Japanese. Hear me out. America's tax dollars can be better spent than on defending wealthy allies who are more than capable of protecting themselves. America should just leave. I don’t even know where to start with these communist remarks surely you need to do a lot more political studying.
Cutting costs reduce the MLC labor workforce that already is way over 75% of my hard earn yen earnings

500亿日元，我纳的税，应该将主权劳动合约工人数减少了一半，因为用不着派6个人去除草。
日本目前给在美军基地内工作的22000名工人支付工资，东京希望减少在超市，饭店和娱乐场所包括保龄球场为美军提供服务的5800人的工资。故事中还需要加入基地内超过一半大约75%的主权劳动合约工人是由上述资金支付的，其他的是由美元支付，这些原本是支付给美国工人的。

回复一楼：
日本政府所说的那5800工人是关于IHA（非直接公用协议）的工人。日本政府当初就不该同意为这些人支付工资，因为他们为AAFES（译注：The Army & Air Force Exchange Service， 陆军空军交易服务，是美陆军和空军遍布各地军事基地的零售商），MWR（译注：Morale、Welfare、Recreation program，士气，福利与娱乐项目的简称，是美军设立的专门为驻外美军服务的商业组织）和MCCS（译注：Marine Corps Community Services，海军陆战队社区服务，为海军陆战队提供生活服务的商业机构）工作，这些组织是在基地内销售产品和服务的商业组织，赚取了大量的收入，可以支付也应该支付日本工人的工资。日本政府只应该为MLC（主权劳动协议）的工人支付工资。
错误，我的（纳税）足够支付给这些懒惰的主权劳动协议工，但是他们根本不关心基地内的工作，而只关心他们的钱包，谁需要一份超过20年的工作？基地需要多少人除草？需要超过6个人吗？刷墙呢？6-8个人？修门锁呢？5个人就够了真的需要那么多人？真是浪费我的钱。

回复二楼：
真的，美国在日本谈钱让美国看起来比他在日本的所作所为更傻。真见鬼，美国人应该比日本人更心烦。听我说完。与其防守富有的足以有能力保护自己的盟友美国的税收有更好的地方花，美国人应该立刻离开。
我甚至不知道从哪开始批判这条共产主义评论，你真的需要多研究研究政治。
裁减主权劳工就可以节省我努力挣的钱的75%。

japan4lifeOct. 24, 2015 - 08:06PM JST
@bjohnson23: I agree with you about the work ethics of MLC workers, I have personally witnessed it on many many occasions such as 3 people coming to change a light bulb etc. My comment is to say that at least the J-Govt. can justify the payment of MLC workers salaries because they work directly for the U.S. Military whereas the IHA work for PXs, Shopettes, Military Clubs, Bowling Alleys, Burger Kings etc. that generate income and should be paying their own employees salaries. The reason why the J-Govt. pays their salaries and allows more MLC and IHA workers than are actually needed is to buy support to keep the bases in Japan especially Okinawa. People in Okinawa who support the bases are mostly people who are getting some economic benefit from them. If you take away the economic benefits from those people, they will not support the bases being there.

楼上，关于主权劳工职业道德这块我同意，我是亲眼所见三个人来换一个小灯泡。我的意思是说，至少日本政府能够修改主权工的工资因为他们是直接为美军服务的，然而IHA（非直接雇佣协议）为PX（译注：美军中的福利店），零售店，军官俱乐部，保龄球馆，汉堡王等等服务的。那些都有收入，应该给他们自己的员工发工资。日本政府之所以为这些别人的员工发工资并超员配备MLC（译注：主权劳动协议工）和IHA工人是因为想用钱收买当地人支持保留这些基地，特别是冲绳（中国琉球）的基地。支持冲绳（中国琉球）基地的人都是从中受益的人。如果撤销这些经济支持，这些人就不会再支持基地留在那了。

Barbara TroutOct. 25, 2015 - 05:23AM JST
One of the things that PM Abe wants to do right.
Japan should not have to pay "protection money" to any country for hosting its military bases. This creates the impression that Japan is an occupied country.
Japan should make that foreign country pay for the use of Japanese land for military bases like Kyrgyzstan, Cuba and other countries have done.

安倍唯一做对的一件事。
日本不需要向任何国家支付保护费来招待他们的基地。这给人的印象是日本是被别人占领的。日本应该让使用日本土地作为基地的国家支付费用，像吉尔吉斯、古巴和其他国家那样。

Yamiko OtokawaOct. 25, 2015 - 06:54AM JST
This is the NEW Japan that can say NO. Japan needs to develop its own military technologies like Germany, France, UK, China, etc. It needs not buy F-35, F-15,etc from the USA because that provides jobs in USA, not in Japan.
The USA can cut off spare parts for these purchases when it wants to, basically make these purchases unusable, the aircraft not flyable. This cutoff happened to India, China, Iran, etc, in the past. Japan becomes a hostage of USA foreign policy by purchasing USA military items.
USA needs to pay for the use of land in Japan, electricity, water, services, etc, for its military bases.

这是一个可以说不的新日本。日本应该像德国、法国、英国、中国那样发展自己的军事技术。不需要从美国买F35，F15，因为那给美国提供工作机会而不是日本。
美国如果愿意可随时中断备件供应，基本上这些交易毫无用处，如果飞机不能飞的话。这些中断供应的事情在印度，中国，伊朗等等身上都曾发生。购买美国军事装备使日本变成了美国外交政治的人质。
美国应该为使用日本土地、电力、水、服务等等来建立军事基地付钱。（译注：这个小脚盆这么霸气你美国爸爸知道不？下面还有很多霸气的日本人。）

voiceofokinawaOct. 25, 2015 - 12:41PM JST
There is no parallel in the world as absurd a matter as what the Japan calls "sympathy budget" which the U.S. side likes to call "host-nation support."

世界上从来没有一个像日本的“同情预算”美国那边叫做“东道国支援费”这样荒谬的事情。

In 2011, Washington succeeded to persuade Tokyo to pay 190 billion yen (approx. $1.58 billion) for the maintenance of U.S. bases in Japan in spite of the fact that Japan was suffering greatly from the aftermath of the triple disasters that hit the Tohoku area.

在2011年，华盛顿成功说服东京支付了1900亿日元（大约15.8亿美元）的驻日美军基地维护费，根本不管日本正在承受严重的福岛核灾难。

That agreement will expire next year, and in ongoing negotiations Washington is blatantly demanding the amount the Japanese taxpayers pay must increase 30% to 247 billion (approx. $ 2.06 billion).

明年这个协议就到期了，在正在进行的谈判中，华盛顿公然叫嚣要求日本纳税人支付总额必须提高30%到2470亿（大约20.06亿美元）。

A significant part of the money will be paid as salaries to Japanese base employees working as attendants at recreation centers, golf courses, restaurants and what not. This is really an absurd situation. Suppose Toyota or Honda U.S. subsidiaries demand Washington to shoulder maintenance costs such as land fees and employees' salaries, how would U.S. taxpayers react? Can the Japanese car makers retort by saying "We are contributing to the U.S. economy enormously, so it's very natural for us to demand 'host-nation support'"?

这些钱的主要部分是用来支付基地内的日本劳工，这些劳工主要是娱乐中心，高尔夫球场，餐馆等等的服务员。这处境真是太荒谬了。假设丰田或本田的美国分公司要求华盛顿负担土地费用和员工工资和维护费用，美国纳税人会怎么回应？日本公司能够反驳说“我们为美国经济做出了巨大的贡献，美国提供“东道国支持费”是非常自然的。”？

According to DoD statistics, Japan shoulders 74.5% of the U.S. base maintenance costs. This is a very high percentage compared with South Korea's 40% and Germany's 32.6%. Today's Asahi Shimbun editorial points out Japanese taxpayers will be obliged to pay more under the new security-related bills to help U.S. forces and also if the Henoko relocation plan is actually implemented.

根据统计，日本担负了74.5%的美国基地维护费用。比较韩国的40%，德国的32.6%这是非常高的。日本朝日新闻的社评指出根据新日美安保条约，日本纳税人有义务支付更高的费用帮助美军，而且边野古基地搬迁计划也必须实施。

Japan-U.S. relations are brimming with oddities and outrageousness. It's about time to seriously review the Japan-U.S. Treaty of Mutual Security and the concomitant Japan-U.S. Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), the very sources of these oddities absurdities.

日美关系充满着诡异和残暴。是时候认真审视日美关系了。共同安保条约以及附带的日美军事地位协定，正是这些奇怪荒谬的（处境）的根源。

The appropriation amount steadily increased from 1978 to 2001, The 2012 Japanese defense budget allocated ¥186.7 billion for cost sharing (¥144.4 billion of which are SMA-related payments.) This represents a 0.5% increase from the previous year and a 10.4% decrease from 5 years earlier.

拨款在1978到2001年间持续增加，为了分担成本，2012年日本的国防预算分摊了1867亿（1444亿是与SMA有关的员工工资）。这表明，比前一年增加了0.5%，比5年前减少了10.4%。

turbotsatOct. 26, 2015 - 07:44AM JST
First let Japan explain why they are not paying 100% of costs for bases in Japan serving to protect Japan.
USA doesn't have to worry about any of the players in the Far East crossing the Pacific to bother us, bases or not.

首先，让日本解释解释为什么他们没有向保护日本的人支付100%的费用。
美国无需为任何远东国家建不建基地的抱怨担心。

tinawatanabeOct. 26, 2015 - 08:21AM JST
First let Japan explain why they are not paying 100% of costs for bases in Japan serving to protect Japan.
Japan is paying more than 100% even paying for their families and recreation facilities.

楼上，日本付出的已经超过100%了，甚至为他们的家属和娱乐掏腰包。

turbotsatOct. 27, 2015 - 12:51AM JST
ts: First let Japan explain why they are not paying 100% of costs for bases in Japan serving to protect Japan.
tinawatanabe: Japan is paying more than 100% even paying for their families and recreation facilities.
Apparently not close to 100%. And doesn't appear to include anything for cost of renting and maintaining weapons systems, only partial support of base maintenance.

日本付出的已经超过100%了，甚至为他们的家属和娱乐掏腰包。
楼上，显然离100%差得远，好像没有包括所有租赁和维护武器系统的费用，只是部分的支持基地维护。
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omoiyari_Yosan
Omoiyari Yosan (思いやり予算?, lit. sympathy budget), is a popular term for funds provided by Japan as host nation support for the U.S. forces stationed in Japan. The official term is Cost Sharing for the US Forces Stationed in Japan (在日米军驻留経费负担 Zainichi Beigun Churyu Keihi Futan) ...
同情预算是驻日美军东道国支援里面的常见项目。官方术语是驻日美军成本分担。

The most significant expansions in Japanese support have been: partial assumption of welfare costs for Japanese employed by USFJ (since 1978), establishment of the Facilities Improvement Program (FIP) which provides funds for the maintenance and upgrade of facilities and areas provided to USFJ (since 1979), partial assumption of labor costs for Japanese employed by USFJ (since 1987), partial assumption of utility costs for USFJ (since 1991), assumption of USFJ training relocation costs (since 1996)
These expanded costs have become Japan's most significant contribution to the US-Japan security alliance. In 2002 Japan's contributions represented more than 60% of all allied financial contributions to the US and covered 75% of USFJ's operating costs.

最重要增加的费用是花在：部分为美军服务的日本员工的福利上（从1978年开始），驻日美军设施建设和改造项目（FIP），为维护和升级提供资金（从1979年）。部分为美军服务的日本员工的工资（从1987年），部分驻日美军日常费用（从1991），驻日美军训练和搬迁费用(从1996)
这些增加的费用已经成为日本对美日安保联盟的最重要的贡献。2002年日本贡献了所有资金超过60%，以及75%的驻日美军运转费用。

BertieWoosterOct. 26, 2015 - 07:54PM JST
turbotsat,
First let Japan explain why they are not paying 100% of costs for bases in Japan serving to protect Japan.
Firstly, the US bases (mostly) in Okinawa are NOT here to protect Japan.
They are here to "serve US interests."
Secondly, "Japan" cannot explain anything because "Japan" is a country. You might ask the guy who is supposed to represent this country for an explanation, Mr Shinzo Abe. But don't expect too much. Reason,  is not one of his strong points.
To put it mildly.

楼上，首先，日本人应该解释解释为什么他们没有对保护日本的人支付100%的费用。
首先，美国在琉球的基地不是保护日本的，是为美国利益服务的。
其次，日本解释不了因为“日本”是个国家。你可以让那个应该代表这个国家的人去解释，安倍晋三先生。但是别有太高期望。因为，那不是他的强项。
这是委婉的说法。

japan4lifeOct. 26, 2015 - 12:39AM JST
@tinawatanabe: You are 100% correct, the U.S. Military will never be content no matter what the J-Govt. does for them. They could care less about the financial situation of Japan because they don't even care about the financial situation of the United States, for the U.S. Military it is all about bigger and bigger budgets and they dont care what other budgets you have to cut as long as you dont cut theirs.

你完全正确，美军永远不会满足，无论日本政府为他们做什么。他们完全不关心日本的经济状况，因为他们甚至连美国的经济状况都不关心，对美军来讲，预算越多越好，他们不关心其他花钱的地方必须被消减，只要你不砍他们的预算就行。

harvey pekarOct. 24, 2015 - 09:10PM JST
Hi, @praak
Just google "cost of US bases overseas" and there are so many articles you can gather info from. I didn't use one source, but read multiple sites to gather.

谷歌一下“美军海外基地成本”，有很多这方面的文章，我没有引用单一的来源，而是参考了很多网站。

And by this search you'll get other articles about so many other topics that are related to or at least loosely related to the overall theme.

在搜索中你可以看到很多关于其他与这个主题有关的或至少有松散关系的文章。

Also from these articles you can find info on general opinion of US citizens about having bases overseas. You're hard pressed to find any article that supports having so many bases abroad.

从这些文章中你会发现美国人对这些海外基地的看法，你很难发现支持这些驻外基地的文章。

Hi, @bertiewooster,
No, America doesn't want Abe or his cronies and America doesn't want it's own government nutters.

楼上，没有美国人想要安倍和他的无人机，美国人也不想要他们自己疯狂的政府。

Too many people frame this argument as America wants to be in Okinawa and only the Japanese want Americans out, no it's the US hawks who are birds of the same feather flocking together with Japan's hawks that want a base in Okinawa.

太多的人因为美国人想要待在琉球只有日本人才要赶美国走而争吵。但是只有和日本鹰派一脉相承的美国鹰派才想要琉球的基地。

Just like the average person in Okinawa wants America out of Okinawa, that same average person in the US wants it's military out of Okinawa.

就像琉球的普通人想要美国离开一样，普通的美国人也想撤离琉球驻军。

America doesn't receive free rides from host nations by having it's military there. They get billions, but the US taxpayer pays in some cases five times that, and it's American lives at the front lines in foreign soil.

通过驻军美国没有搭到所在国的顺风车。他们得到了一些钱，但是美国纳税人的付出是这些钱的5倍，而美国人在前线无法回家。

There are bases in Germany of all places. Why? Reports vary anywhere from 600 to 1000 US bases overseas. That's insane and totally unnecessary... and wasteful spending.

在德国也有基地，为什么？报道说美国在海外有600~1000个基地，这真是太疯狂了，完全没有必要，浪费钱。

But then there are countries like Poland where the majority polled want the US military there because they're scared of Russia. So why is the US wasting money on bases for wealthy countries like Germany and Japan when there are countries like Poland that need the help and want the help.
Leave Japan and help those who need it, who want it, who depend on it.

但是有些国家，像波兰想要美军因为他们害怕俄罗斯。那么为什么放着需要美国的波兰等国不管却要在像德国日本这样的富国驻军？离开日本去帮助那些需要他们，想要他们，依赖他们的国家吧。

avigatorOct. 24, 2015 - 09:34PM JST
Japan has option, terminate the agreement and kindly request US Forces to leave. Have you ever bought one of those whole life insurance and invested so much money that you think it is better to continue paying the premium to recover the investment? But in reality it is wiser to just stop it and switch to term insurance. Such is Japan's predicament. It will take a strong leader to realize that they have created artificial defense needs so the addiction to defense and "protection" will continue. It is a good deal for the US because it forces Japan to purchase lots of weapons systems. At the same time, although the US has to pay the salaries for its own military and civilians stationed in Japan, it does not have to pay for construction and maintenance of of most facilities. So, this is a free ride. Japan, on the other hand, could just use the funds it spends supporting US forces on its own military personnel, facilities and equipment. It does not have to kick the US in bad terms. It could just allow certain visiting SOFA status for joint exercises and contingencies, military overflight permission, port calls and landing rights. That is when Japan can say that it is a sovereign nation again.

日本是有选择的，终止谈判，友善的要求美军离开。你是否花很多钱买过那种理财和人寿一体的保险，你认为持续支付保险费去获得投资是更好的选择？但是聪明的做法是停止它，然后去买真正的保险。这就是日本的窘境。需要强有力的领导人意识到这一点，他们建立了事实上不存在的国防需求，对防卫和“保护”已经上瘾了。
同时虽然美国人自己必须为他们在日本的军队和人员发工资，但他们不一定为大部分的设施的建设和维护付钱。所以这就是搭日本的顺风车。另一方面，日本本可以用花在美军身上的钱去支持自己的军人，设施和装备。不一定非要因为这些坏处而和美国闹翻。我们可以仅仅允许联合演习、意外事件军机飞越许可、到港停靠和土地权益的拜访性的SOFA（译注：驻军地位协定）。那时日本才可以说是一个主权国家。

axle14Oct. 26, 2015 - 01:56PM JST
One time I heard a SOFA acquaintance once told us in a party, " As long as Japan has juice and blood that we can sip, we will stay here in Japan until all of it is gone". There's no other overseas base like Japan where I can have my free house air conditioned 7/24/365 all day long while commanding to low salaried overworked Japanese on base workers like if I'm a queen and their employer. LOL...! "

又一次，我听一个SOFA的熟人说：“只要日本还有油水可榨，我们就会待在这直到把它吸干。没有哪个海外基地像日本这样，我可以住免费的全天24小时空调的房子，像女王和老板一样向基地内疲劳的日本低收入工人发号司令。”

Stupid and very ungrateful lady, in general they ,SOFA personnel , think that way. Sorry but if some of you have seen MLC workers cutting a shrub with six people, I have seen a platoon of Navy seamen and PO who worked on a door knob repair, dealt with it for the whole day and we're not able to fix it. Next day, a single MLC repairmen came by and fixed it in just 30 minutes. Wow! Some people should think before saying something stupid and better yet look at the real picture from a fair perspective. Who is the leech, and who is being leeched is quite obvious to those people who really know what lies beneath!

愚蠢没良心的女人，总的来讲，SOFA的人就是这样想的。对不起，如果像你这样的一些人见过主权劳动协议工六个人除草，我还见过一个排的海军和军官修一个门把手，干了一整天，还没修好。第二天，一个主权劳动协议修理工30分钟就修好了。在乱喷之前有些人应该先想想，最好从幻想里走出来看看现实。谁是吸血鬼，谁是被吸血的在那些了解情况的人看来是显而易见的。

jerseyboyOct. 24, 2015 - 10:32PM JST
Japan, struggling to restore its financial health, is apparently calling for a decrease of more than 50 billion yen ($415 million) from fiscal year 2016, beginning next April, from the current approximate 190 billion yen yearly spend, according to the sources.
Japan’s financial burden is expected to increase under its recently-enacted security legislation. “Unless the host-nation support is decreased to make up for (the expected increase), it would be difficult to get public backing,” a Japanese Defense Ministry source said
So what this boils down to is that the Japanese want American taxpayers to pay more so Japan can live under the umbrella of the U.S. military because: 1) The Japanese economy is hopelessly messed up -- and not going to get better, and 2) Despite that, Abe has decided it is a good time to ramp-up Japan's own defense spending, so he can rattle his own sword at China. Sad really, that such a once proud country is reduced to this kind of position.

正在努力复兴经济的日本明确要求从明年四月的2016财年的目前约1900亿日元的年度费用中降低500亿日元（4.15亿美元）的费用。
在执行安保法案后，日本的经济负担预计会增加。
“除非减少东道国支援费来弥补（预计会增加的费用），否则很难获得公众的支持，”日本国防部的消息人士说。
所有一切都是因为日本人想要美国纳税人花更多的钱，这样日本就可以生活在美国的军事保护伞下，因为
1.日本经济毫无希望一团乱，也不会好转。
2.尽管如此，安倍还是觉得这是提高日本自己的国防预算的好时机，这样他就能向中国胡乱挥舞他的剑。真是悲哀，这个令人骄傲的国家竟然沦落到此。

canadianbentoOct. 25, 2015 - 03:04AM JST
OK, the 2nd World War has been over for 70 plus years, the Japanese lost, when are the Americans going to agree? The number of Social Problems the United States have at home would be better served by taking the Troops out of Japan cleaning up all these problems the Country has

好的，第二次世界大战过了70年了，日本输了。美国人什么时候会同意？撤出驻日美军可以使美国国内的大量社会问题变得更好。

heynongOct. 25, 2015 - 06:58AM JST
supermarkets, restaurants and entertainment facilities, including bowling alleys, servicing U.S. military personnel, according to a government source.
No wonder Okinawa residents have got resentment over extravagance tourists life style of US military. Paying wages to Armed combat servicemen are different from paying wages to bowling club employees.
If servicemen are too bored, they can play Sudoku, Chess and Ping Pong. Entertainment will not make Japan is more secure. It is the distraction from their battle readiness.

超市，饭店和娱乐场所包括保龄球场。
难怪琉球居民对美军过着游客一般的生活如此愤怒。为美军格斗训练付钱和为保龄球俱乐部员工付钱是完全不同的。
如果当兵的太无聊他们可以玩数独、象棋和乒乓球。娱乐不会让日本更安全。只会使他们的战备松懈。

japan4lifeOct. 25, 2015 - 04:32PM JST
If the U.S. Military want their family members with them while they serve in Japan then the U.S. Govt. should bear the cost for all of the facilities that they require. The Japanese Taxpayers should not be required to pay for Housing, Schools and Leisure Facilities or anything else that is not necessary for the defense of Japan.

如果美军想要在日本服役时和他们的家人在一起，那么美国政府应该为所有这些设施和要求付钱。日本纳税人不应该为房子，学校，休闲设施和其他任何与日本国防无关的东西付钱。

BertieWoosterOct. 26, 2015 - 10:28PM JST
There is NOTHING happening in the Pacific area that diplomacy could not handle.
Except, of course, the massive US military build up.

太平洋地区没有什么是外交不能解决的。
当然，除了聚集的大量美军。

harvey pekarOct. 24, 2015 - 07:36PM JST
When all money spent is calculated, the money that Japan and the Japanese taxpayer spends doesn't come close to the total cost that the US and the American taxpayers spend to pay for a military to defend the third largest economy in the world.
The majority of Japanese people don't want the US in Okinawa and the majority of Americans don't want to pay for it.

算上所有的钱，日本和日本纳税人花的钱不能支付所有的花销，美国和美国纳税人要为这个世界第三大经济体支付军费。
大部分日本人不想让美军待在琉球，大部分美国人不想为此付钱。

BertieWoosterOct. 24, 2015 - 07:28PM JST
Harvey Pekar,
America should just leave.
A lot of us here have this opinion.
Perhaps they could take Abe and his ultra right wing buddies with them!

楼上
美国应该立刻就走。
我这很多人都是这个观点。
也许应该把安倍和他的极右翼小伙伴们一起带走！

praackOct. 24, 2015 - 07:58PM JST
interesting Harvey - not sure where you got your information regarding the USA from - was unaware of any recent Polls being out regarding the viability of Okinawa and pulling our troops out of the far east.
Middle East would be a different matter
AS for Bertie and others who wish for a for a Swiss type peaceful solution- do you really think that would happen post the Pacific War? When China uses Japan as the excuse to focus the common folk's ire each time they need to divert attention from something that is going wrong internal to their country?
sorry- that would not happen, in 10- 20 years Japan would have Chinese troops based on their soil to "advise" them, Chinese police to "help" the regular police find "subversive" elements

楼上上，不确定你从哪听到的美国人的意见，最近没听说任何关于琉球可行性和在远东撤军的民意调查。
中东完全是另一回事。
至于贝蒂和他的伙伴希望一个瑞士式的和平解决方案，你真的认为那在发生太平洋战争时行得通吗？当中国用日本当借口转移内部矛盾时？
很遗憾那不会发生，10到20年后，在他们（日本）土地上的中国军队就会和他们（日本）友好“协商”，中国的警察会“帮助”普通的警察搜捕“危险分子”。

BertieWoosterOct. 25, 2015 - 07:46PM JST
Wc626,
Wouldn't the japanese taxpayers like to see us content on our own bases? Or would you rather have us out and about local spots and wreaking havoc in your cities and unfamiliar cultural norms?
The local taxpayers are not footing the bill. It's mostly the taxpayers in the rest of Japan. As for Okinawans, they don't want you wreaking havoc in Okinawan cities and couldn't care less whether you are content on your bases or not.
How about doing as Harvey Pekar suggests and just leave?

日本纳税人不想满足我们基地的需求？你们要赶我们走就因为当地的风景，破坏了你们的城市，不熟悉的文化？本地纳税人并没有买单。大部分是日本其他地方的纳税人（买的单）。就琉球来讲，他们不想让你们破坏琉球城，根本不关心你在基地里的生活能不能得到满足。
像Harvey Pekar网友建议的那样立刻离开怎么样？

tinawatanabeOct. 25, 2015 - 11:12PM JST
Wouldn't the japanese taxpayers like to see us content on our own bases?
You'll never be content.
Or would you rather have us out and about local spots and wreaking havoc in your cities and unfamiliar cultural norms?
Japan is hearing this rhetoric for 70 years..

难道日本纳税人不想看到我们满足于我们自己的基地吗？
你们永远不满足。
还是说你们愿意看到我们在当地到处闲逛并肆虐于你们的城市和对你们的文化规范造成破坏？
日本听这种陈词滥调已经70年了。

Wc626Oct. 26, 2015 - 10:47PM JST
Japan is hearing this rhetoric for 70 years
Then perhaps it is time for Japan to protest until all bases are closed and all USAFJ members have left.
Japan is a mature, modern & (somewhat) sovereign nation. Its time to take on the full burden of providing for its own national security. How's that gona fly with only a handful of right-wingers and 90% pacifist?
By all means, I'd love to see that happen. Got my "popcorn" ready. 1st things first- Abe will have to implement a draft for SDF. . . . .LoL, it gets deeper though.

日本听这种陈词滥调已经70年了。
那么可能对日本来讲是时候开始抗议了，直到所有的基地都被关闭，所有的美军离开。
日本是成熟，现代，独立的国家。是时候自己承担全部的国防负担了。怎样带着少部分的右翼和90%和平主义者飞翔？
总的来说，我乐见其成。我爆米花都准备好了，安倍第一件事情就是必须要给自卫队增兵，然后越陷越深。

25psotOct. 25, 2015 - 10:07PM JST
Abe's military ambitions require tons of money and scraping here and there will not likely make Japan financially more healthy.

安倍的军事野心需要大量的钱，到处乱花，不可能改善日本经济。

SerranoOct. 24, 2015 - 11:14PM JST
Both countries are teetering under massive public debts.
But have no fears, Hillary Clinton and the Democrats will fix the U.S. financial crisis, maybe partly by withdrawing U.S. military forces from Japan and Korea... hey, a guy can dream, can't he?

这两个国家都有大量的债务。
但是别担心，希拉里克林顿和民主党将会解决美国的金融危机，可能会部分撤出日韩驻军，每个人都可以做梦，不是吗？

itsonlyrocknrollOct. 25, 2015 - 12:06AM JST
Japan is a vital linchpin to US Government pacific fleet forward bases, I find it truly astonishing that commenter's appear unaware of their significance. These forwards bases are essential to protect US Government economic interests. If the government of Japan were to insist that the US Pacific fleet was to vacate these forward bases the consequences and implications will too serious to contemplate.

日本是美国重要的太平洋舰队前进基地，评论家们忽视这一点让我非常意外。这些前进基地对于保护美国政府的经济利益是必不可少的。如果日本政府坚持美国太平洋舰队离开这些前进基地，结果和影响太严重了必须深思熟虑。

One thing is for certain Japan would develop its own submarine off shore nuclear deterrent to counter-balance aggression from the government of China, please let's not go there.
The US government must shoulder more of the financial burden no ifs or buts. At the same time fully accept these bases are not beneficial to the security of Japan. Seriously, for one iota of a second did the populous at large believe that the Pacific fleet was about to engage the Chinese navy in and around the Spratlys reclamation activities in maritime Asia for benefit the region, must be off their rocker. Sorry for my bluntness....

其中一个就是日本必须发展自己的核潜艇以抗衡中国的进攻，希望不要走到那一步。
美国政府一定会承担更多的经济负担。同时完全承担这些基地对日本安全也没有好处。严肃的说，短期内很多人相信太平洋舰队将会应对中国海军在南沙及周围的造岛行为所引起的亚洲海洋（安全威胁），对本地区是有益的，必须赶走他们，请原谅我的直白。

WolfpackOct. 25, 2015 - 03:45AM JST
The US and Japan are essentially the top two indebted developed nations in the world. Meanwhile China has become very assertive in the Western Pacific. It is dangerous for Japan to tempt the US into reducing it's commitment or taking it's ships and troops and going home - especially if they do not intend to ramp up spending on their own defense.
The two countries need to start from scratch and reassess their joint defense needs from square one. Japan will inevitably need to spend more, not less, for their own defense. With their huge social costs they will likely delay doing so for as long as they possibly can. The US needs to reduce it's commitment to Western and Central Europe and shift it East and towards the Pacific.

美国和日本是两个负载累累的发达国家。而中国已经在西太平洋变得非常自信。这是非常危险的，会诱使美国降低承诺或者撤离军队，特别是他们不想增加国防费用的时候。
这两个国家需要从头开始分摊联合防务需求。日本不可避免的会增加支出，而不是减少，这是为了他们自己的国防。（虽然）由于巨大的社会成本的原因使他们可能推迟这么做。美国需要减少对西方和中欧的承诺，更关注远东太平洋地区。

toshikoOct. 25, 2015 - 11:24PM JST
Excuse to keep bases in Japan has been changed once in a while
1, original --- to ensure Japan will not act 2nd Pearl Harbor
2 Before Soviet became Russia. To protect Japan from Soviet
3 Since China rescued USA from bankruptcy To protect japan from China
To receive extortion money so that USA can capture middle east using extorted money

保留日本基地的借口经常改变
1.最开始是保证日本不会发动第二次珍珠港袭击
2.在苏联变成俄罗斯前，保护日本对抗苏联
3.自从中国把美国从银行破产中解救出来就变成了保护日本对抗中国

Mike3113KingOct. 27, 2015 - 03:02AM JST
Japan has over $1 trillion in US bonds, (IOU funny money) which they could and should use to draw down before the US launches QE4 and further debases its currency. Why would anyone loan more money to the largest debtor nation in the history of the world? Get out now before Korea and China start making more cars.

日本有大量的美国国债，他们有能力也应该在美国QE4并贬值之前减少债券，为什么还有人会将越来越多的钱借给这个世界历史上最大的债务国？在韩国和中国开始生产越来越多的汽车前脱身吧。

japan4lifeOct. 25, 2015 - 09:56AM JST
Most of the money that has been spent by the J-Govt. on the bases in Okinawa has been used to construct Military Family Housing, Dependent Schools, Military Clubs, Fitness Centers, Golf Courses and other leisure facilities. They pay the MLC and IHA workers more than their jobs are worth and they pay the base landowners more than their land is worth in order to buy their support. If you take a close look at the Host Nation Support Money that Japan has spent and continues to spend on U.S. Military Facilities, you will find that very little of it is used on things directly related to the defense of Japan.

日本政府大部分的钱花在了为琉球基地建设军人家庭房，家属学校，军官俱乐部，健身房，高尔夫球场，和其他休闲设施。他们支付给MLC和IHA工人超过他们工作价值的薪水，他们给土地所有者超过土地价值的钱就是为了买到他们的支持，如果你仔细看看东道国支援费，你会发现只有很少的钱直接花在了与日本国防有关的事情上。

bajhista65Oct. 24, 2015 - 05:56PM JST
At last JGov and Military department finally woke up. US is good in bluffing in disguise of support and business for peace and stability of the world.

最终日本政府和国防部终于醒悟了。美国善于伪装成维护世界和平和稳定。

thepersoniamnowOct. 24, 2015 - 04:41PM JST
How bout this... Japanese get a green card upon request and then we keep paying.

这样如何……给日本人发绿卡，然后我们继续付钱。

1glennOct. 26, 2015 - 07:43AM JST
It would be wonderful if the US did not have to spend lives and money to ensure that the trade lanes kept open, but the whole world benefits from open sea lanes. Since Japan is a major economic power house, behind only China and the US, they absolutely require open trade routes. Since Japan does not trust itself to steer away from the type of militarism that led to World War II, who is going to keep the trade lanes open, and ensure Japanese sovereignty? China?

美国不一定要流血出汗来确保贸易路线开放，太好了，但是整个世界都从开放的贸易路线上获利了。因为日本是中国和美国之后的主要经济大国，他们当然也需要开放的贸易路线。因为日本不相信他自己可以摆脱导致第二次世界大战的军国主义，谁来保证贸易路线的开放，依靠日本的君主还是中国？

Wc626Oct. 27, 2015 - 01:01AM JST
tinawatanabe: Japan is paying more than 100% even paying for their families and recreation facilities.
@tina. Then perhaps Japan should quit complaining about the cost. Elect officials, representing your country, who oppose bending over to Washington DC's piggy-bank.
Then come up with your own national security agenda. (Security Bills passed, that's a good step!)
The additional USAF family members & rec centers are just there for "morale". Wouldn't you know? It is their blood spilling first- not Japanese- on the front line. @tina-- Go Figure.

日本应该停止抱怨，举行选举，选出那些反对向华盛顿贪心的银行卑躬屈膝的人来代表日本。
然后提出你们自己的国防议案。（通过安保费用，那是第一步！）附带的美军家属和娱乐中心仅仅是为了士气，你不知道吗？在前线先流血的是他们不是日本人。好好想想吧。

toshikoOct. 24, 2015 - 10:38PM JST
Landlord got finally tired to pay renter annual increment of pay to the renter. Was security law prelude to this eviction plan?
We have to wait to see reaction by China. After all both country use kanji, not alphabet, both country people do not have blue eyes nor blond hair, And use chopsticks.

房东终于不想付年年增长的租金了。安保法案就是这一驱逐计划的前奏吗？
我们必须看看中国的反应。毕竟这两个国家都使用汉字，都不是金发碧眼，都使用筷子。