印度不应模仿中国建特大城市 [英国媒体]

Why Indiashould reject China's obsession with bigger, denser megacities

为什么印度不应该像中国那样迷恋更大更密集的特大城市



The worldis in awe of China’s relentless capacity to produce gargantuan cities, eachoutdoing the most recent superlative that describes its predecessor. IfShenzhen and Shanghai are megacities, and the Pearl-River Delta a sprawlingurban agglomeration, then what should we call the 130 million-strong Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei city-region the governmentis currently planning? A gigacity?

世界对中国生产巨型城市的能力望而生畏，不断在超越。如果深圳和上海是特大城市以及珠江三角洲是个蔓生的城市群的话，那么我们应该如何称呼中国政府正在规划的北京-天津-河北城市区？一个超特大城市？

WhileChina just keeps building bigger and higher, India has also supersized its oldcolonial cities, following the centripetal model of dense cores and endlessperipheries. White collar workers in Delhi or Mumbai, just as in Beijing or Shanghai, are pushed out to newdormitory towns, hours away from their jobs. A part of the Indian working classmay have managed to remain close to their place of work, but at the price of beingsqueezed into insecure, under-serviced settlements.

在中国建造更大更高的同时，印度也在扩大自己的老殖民城市，所遵循的原则也是建造致密的中心，然后围绕这些中心进行不断的扩散延伸。和北京或者上海一样，德里或者孟买的白领被推向了新的郊外住宅区，每天都要坐好远的车去上班。虽然印度工人阶层比较接近自己的上班地点，但是他们所居住的地方不安全而且公共设施不足。

jacknbox2h ago
It is thehard mathematics of people per square mile. If you have that many people, andthey have to go about their lives, you have to build a lot of buildings andconnect them with fast transportation systems.
Buildingcities is a capital intensive job, a job beyond an average "user". Auser-generated urbanism is just fancy name for a slum.

人口太过密集确实是个难题。有那么多人口要进行日常生活，那么就需要建造大量建筑并利用快速交通系统进行链接。
城市建设是个资本密集型工作，不仅仅是普通“使用者”那么简单。而使用者所生成的都市化不过是贫民窟的漂亮代名词罢了。

giacinto1014h ago
Indiacould never really emulate China even though it really wants to.This is goodthing for the environment, mother earth and India itself..

即使印度很想模仿中国，也无法做到这一点。这对于环境，地球母亲以及印度自身来说都是好事。

SouthAsianObserver6h ago
NeitherChina nor India are truly in charge of their own "development".Capital is. And Capital sets down the rules for all else. It concentrates andcentralizes to the degree (usually very high) that bests suits its primeinterest (making more capital) and laid down by the biggest chunks of Capital.Of course, "planners" and "developers" may have otherideas, and these may be 'better" from a social, ecological or eveneconomic point of view, but what prevails is Capital's needs. Can't be inCapitalism and against Capital's dictates. That is why their cities are sounlivable. Capital is only interested in their labor and not their welfare. Fora time, the difference may be conciliated within the national scheme of things,but something will give way when the national order is not to Capital's likingand an external force will burst in and make the defaulting parties toe theline once again. It's all put down pat in Das Kapital, but Karl Marx's analysisof Capital is ignored so that generations can keep on thinking that they aresomehow exempt from its rules and decisions, and can keep on making the samewrong assumptions and their economies can keep on .

不论是中国还是印度都没有真正掌控着自己的“发展”。真正的掌控者是资本。资本制定一切规则。资本会浓缩和集中到某种程度（通常非常高）从而最好的实现自己的利益（生成更多资本），而且最终的决定者是最大块的资本。当然，“计划者”和“开发者”可能有其他的想法，而且这些想法从社会，生态以及经济角度看的话甚至还更好，但是最终的决策权力还是被资本掌握着。既然你是资本主义，那么你就无法违抗资本的指令。所以中国的城市才那么不宜居。资本只对他们的劳动力感兴趣，而根本不关心他们的福利。一段时间内这样的差异可能会在国家计划的范围内得到调和，但是一旦国家的指令违反了资本的嗜好，那么就会出现矛盾，届时外部力量将介入并让违约方再次遵守规则。这些内容《资本论》中都有描述，但是马克思对资本的分析被人们忽视了，以至于人们以为可以逃脱资本的规则和决定，所以人们才不断作出错误的假设，以为经济会继续保持下去。

Kavi Mazumdar  SouthAsianObserver 5h ago
Communismhad a good long rule in West Bengal. We can see the results very well. Pleasekeep your bankrupt blood soaked ideologies away from us.

共产主义对西孟加拉邦进行了长久的统治。结果我们都看在了眼里。你那腐败吸血的意识形态，请远离我们

WuWenDi9h ago
Indiawon't and can't do it. She's not as insecure as the Chinese and not as obsessedwith comparing itself with America and the West.
China'scities are faceless, stripped of history, and brutalist. Developing cities on ahuman scale is the way forward. China will only have to rebuild all of itshideous cities in 20 years and then it can give itself another accolade fordoing that in record time.
Indiawill take its own path

印度不会这么做，也无法做到这一点。这印度不像中国那样没有安全感，也不像中国那样总想着和美国以及西方作比较。
中国的城市没有个性，被剥夺了历史，而且是野兽派的。以人类尺度来发展城市才是正确的做法。中国将不得不在20年时间内重建其所有的丑陋城市，然后才能获得荣誉，称自己打破了城市建造的用时记录。

印度将走自己的道路。

gyuyeon88  WuWenDi 5h ago
Do uthink India doesn't have cruel past? No body cares what happens to Indiabecause they're not a threat to the west, and cities in China are beautiful andclean than was in the past

你以为印度没有糟糕的历史？没有人关心印度发生了什么事，因为不对西方构成威胁，中国现在的城市比以前干净漂亮。

NigelRG10h ago
I'm a bitconfused. Railway systems are important to this article, but:
China's"state of the art system" gets you from Shanghai to Beijing (1,318km) in 12 hours.
India's"run-down system" travels from Mumbai to Delhi (1,442 km) in about 18hours.
The timedifference isn't earth-shattering.

我有点困惑。铁路系统对这篇文章来说是重要的，但是：
中国最新的铁路系统从上海到北京（1318公里）要12小时。
印度破败的铁路系统从孟买到德里（1442公里）大约18小时。
所以二者的时间差异也没有那么惊天动地吧。

dunprotestin  NigelRG 9h ago
Yes,Beijing-Shanghai is actually 4hr 48 mins, which makes more sense,

是啊，北京到上海实际上只需4小时48分，这才更加合理。

jacknbox  NigelRG 2h ago
The slownight train from Beijing to Shanghai is very nice. Good meals, clean bed thatrocks you all the way to the destination to start a new day. It is 19th centurynice.
I wouldchoose that over an 4hr 48mins trip anytime.

北京到上海的夜班慢车其实相当好。餐食好，床铺干净，第二天早上刚好到达目的地开启新的一天。有19世纪的复古之感。
所以相比于4小时48分，我更喜欢慢一点的。

DiDi Wu11h ago
May Isuggest hiring some Chinese city planners to get the job right?

我觉得可以雇佣一些中国城市规划者来帮印度搞定这些事情。

ShivaIyer 12h ago
SinceChina is grown big, white man (West) started respecting China. Else, justimagine what would be written in the same Guardian. For India, China is a key -very key measure of growth to the point of envy. Else, India in general wouldbe followed white man where it was left off in 1947. Large nation, growth,certain of industrialization and infrastructural along withsocio-economic-enviro evolution is key. Even to spread peace one need strength.In the corridors of DC, London, Moscow and Beijing it then only works to bringwisdom of peace. Else, it never goes into head. Example in India is Krishna.

由于中国变得强大，白人（西方）开始尊重中国。否则的话，本站的文章肯定是另一种口气了。对印度来说，中国是关键——是衡量发展的关键，甚至达到了羡慕嫉妒的程度。否则，印度总体上将继续1947年白人离开后的样子。大国，增长，一定程度的工业化，基建，还有社会-经济-环境变革是关键。在华盛顿，伦敦，莫斯科和北京这条走廊里，只有带来和平的智慧才有用。否则永远都无法达成目标。印度的克利须那神就是个例子。

GwydionMadawc Williams 12h ago
Have theauthors never heard of "BosWash". They blaim China for something thatoriginated in the USA and has been copied all round the world.
Seehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BosWash for more on BosWash

难道作者从来没听说过波士华地区（波士顿至华盛顿的人口稠密区）吗。这东西起源于美国并被复制到全世界，现在却怪起中国来了。
欲知更多有关波士华地区的信息，请看下面链接：https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BosWash