“你应该考虑我们的感受”：对中国学生来说，国是家的延伸 [英国媒体]

-------------译者：cyber power-审核者：龙龖龘------------



The recently released Chinese student's recording of the argument he has with his teacher about using the word “Taiwan” illustrates how issues of sovereignty and territoriality can be very emotional for Chinese students.

最近发布的一名中国学生记录了他与老师关于使用“台湾”这个词的争论，说明了在主权和领土问题上中国学生反应强烈。

In the video the Chinese student says in a calm voice: “You have to consider all the students … Chinese students are one third of this classroom. You make us feel uncomfortable.” He goes on to argue “You have to show your respect.” The discussion becomes somewhat unclear but it sounds like the student then says “It really makes us feel terrible.” His next comment sounds like he is getting frustrated and upset: “Why do you always keep saying that? ‘Taiwan!' As if it is a separate country.”

在视频中，这名中国学生平静地说:“你必须考虑所有的学生……中国学生占这个教室的三分之一。”你让我们感到不舒服。他接着说，“你必须表现出你的尊重”。视频中的声音听起来有点不清楚，但听起来好像学生说:“这真的让我们感觉很糟。”他的下一个评论听起来很沮丧，很郁闷:“你为什么总是这么说?　‘台湾!’就好像是一个独立的国家。”

-------------译者：cyber power-审核者：龙龖龘------------

The teacher responds: “From where I am standing Taiwan is a separate country. If you feel offended that is your opinion.”

老师回答说:“从我现在的立场来说，台湾是一个独立的国家。如果你觉得被冒犯了，那就是你的想法。”

The student replies: “You should consider our feelings. You don't have to mention it many times and like hurt us once again.” He finishes with “It is our bottom line and you keep touching on it.”

学生回答道:"你应该考虑我们的感情。"你没必要提及它多次，如同伤害了我们一次以一次"。他用"这是我们的底线，你一直在触碰它”来结束争论。

It is not clear from the video exactly what the teacher said that caused the student such offence; however Newcastle University said in a statement that the lecturer was using material from a Transparency International report “which used the term ‘countries' to describe both countries and territories”.

视频中还不清楚老师到底说过什么而引发学生的反感;然而，纽卡斯尔大学在一份声明中说，讲师当时使用的材料来自一个透明国际的报告，该报告使用“国家”来描述国家和地区。


-------------译者：勃列日涅夫-审核者：天河云------------

FatToad
Are generic Chinese the ones in the super market black and white plane wrappers?

“中国人”的概念就像超市里白纸黑字的印刷品（一样廉价）吗？

CommunityMod
Comments on this thread will close shortly. Thanks for your contributions.

这个主题很快会关闭，感谢你的贡献。

FatToad
If you think you are being told fake news harden up hit the books and make an evidence based argument. Calling for others to respect your feelings puts a dead hand on your chances of academic progress. The skills you learn in going through the process will stay with you for life. The anger and personal affront that I felt about a particular line of argument during one of my MBA subjects inspired me to demolish the two chapters by that author in our text. I didn't do it for the marks but it convinced the lecturer and lifted my marks to a new high.

如果你觉得别人的说法是错误的，那就用功学习并提出有依有据的论点来。一味要求别人尊重你的感受只会让你失去进步的机会。你在学习过程中所学到的东西将终生伴随你。在我MBA课程中一段让我感到愤怒和人身攻击的有争议的内容，反而激励了我奋起推翻了这部教科书该作者写的两个章节。我不是为了分数才这么做的，但它确实让讲师信服了，并把我的分数打得很高。

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Thomas Koller
Yes. They have no idea how do approach education as done in Western countries.

是的.他们不知道西方国家的教育方式是怎样实现的。

cactus heart
Sadly irony sails past some such as yourself so I will spell it out for you - I obxted to the arrogant assertion that 'the Protestant northwest European type of society' the readership here incidentally) the fount of all knowledge. It was trailing China in scientific understanding until the Renaissance for starters. Shanghai high schools the highest rated for academic performance in the world.

我反对“新教的西北欧社会是知识源泉”的说法。在科学领域，直到文艺复兴之前，中国一直都处于领先地位。而如今上海中学生的学业表现也是排名世界第一。

 -------------译者：勃列日涅夫-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

BloodyL
"why did the student record and publicise this moment? What was he trying to achieve?" Chinese students are monitored by the Chinese Government with students expected to actively support the regime when any question of a challenge to the system arises.
Other Chinese students act as spies to ensure any dissenting voices are nullified.
It's not just the individual likely to wear the opprobrium - parents/family back home are also likely to be impacted.
It's reasonable to suspect this student did the recording and the publicising of it to curry favour with the Chinese watchers.

“为什么学生记录并公开了这个视频？他想达到什么目的？”中国学生受到中国政府的监控，学生们在面对任何挑战政权制度的问题时，都会积极维护这个政权。然后其他中国学生扮演无间道确保任何反对的声音被压下去。这不是一个人在战斗，连他们家庭也会被牵连进去。所以这是一个合理的质疑，即这个学生宣传它就是为了讨好中国读者的。

60sSeagull
Actually a lot of Australians might not like to know most Europeans regard the country as a backwater with laws favouring the rich non-tax paying corporations and politicians inefficient and slow internet disgusting attitude towards asylum seekers and those disadvantaged terrible public transport uncaring health care system...the list goes on. The point is when you hear these things being said you HAVE to agree they are true that something should be done to raise the bar. Shame no-one has the nous to accept the criticism and do something to change the state of things in their country. Australians CAN. The Chinese CAN'T.

其实很多人并不想知道大多数欧洲人心目中的“国家”是一个法律偏袒富人、逃税的企业和政客、缓慢的互联网、恶劣的态度面对寻求帮助者、可怕的公共交通、不走心的医疗体系……等等这样一潭死水。关键是当你听到这些话时，你有必要承认他们是正确的，也应该做些什么来改善这些。可惜没有人接受批评，做些事情来改变他们国家的状况。澳大利亚人可以。中国人不能。

 -------------译者：勃列日涅夫-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Thomas Koller
Exactly right. Nor have they a repressive government.

完全正确。他们（澳大利亚）也不是专制政府。

dastyarirenminbi
Beat me to it ?

要把我问倒吗？

BaddHamster
I find the concept of patriotism or 'pride' in a country very strange and a little distasteful.
Sure I consider myself fortunate that by an accident of birth I was born into a relatively free democratic first world country with no history of imperialism rather than some war torn hell hole but I can't take any pride in that as I didn't choose it. Its not an accomplishment of any sort.

我发现一个国家的爱国主义或“骄傲”这个概念很奇怪，有点令人反感。
当然，我认为我很幸运，因为机缘巧合，我出生在一个相对自由的民主世界国家，没有帝国主义的历史和战争，但我并不感到自豪因为这不是我选择的。这不是一种成就。

MalicX
People will call you a bigot for wanting to deny rights you have to others because they're born different to you.
You won't be jailed.
That's how free speech works. It's not immunity from criticism.

如果因为他们和你出身不同，你就拒绝他们享受和你一样的权利，那么你就是人们所谓的有偏见。你不会因此被抓进去，这就是言论自由的威力，但批评还是要被批评。

 -------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

Thomas Koller
So ignore it wherever it shows its tender little head.

不要去理会这些心理脆弱的中国学生。

Thomas Koller
Exactly. If they want the same education abroad they should save the money and study at home.

就是。如果他们想在外国接受和中国一样的教育，那他们大可留在中国，不用浪费金钱出国学习。

MalicX
On the contrary the theft of the Chagos Islands was a terrible injustice and we should be talking about it and making reparations.
We should not use it as an excuse to ignore either our own countries' crimes or other countries'. Every nation has darkness in their past that doesn't mean everyone must stay blind and silent forever.

相反，对查戈斯群岛的盗窃是一种可怕的不公，我们应该谈论它，并且作出赔偿。
我们不应该以此为借口忽视本国的罪行或其他国家的罪行。每个国家都有黑暗的过去，但这并不意味着每个人都必须永远地保持盲目和沉默。

Thomas Koller
Chinese snowflakes? So incredibly tender? How about the feelings of Taiwanese and Hong Kongers? Nonsense.

中国的雪花吗?如此脆弱?考虑过台湾和香港人的感情吗?真是废话。

-------------译者：龙腾翻译总管-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

cactusheart
Interesting points anda pity your not their teacher.

有趣的观点。遗憾的是你不是他们的老师。

BobSantamaria
Engaging with your nonsense is like wanking with an oven mitt. It takes ages doesn't feel that good and when you finish you wonder why you ever began.

听着你的废话就像戴着烤箱手套打飞机。这需要很长时间，感觉也不好。当你结束后你会怀疑当初为什么要开始。

60sSeagull
So? The Chinese can have their 'face' in their own country but in Australia the majority do not regard Taiwan as belonging to the Chinese. Nor would the Vietnamese agree that the islands China is stealing off them are Chinese. Hypocricy!!!

是这样吗？中国人可以在他们自己的国家内维护他们的“面子”，但在澳大利亚大多数人根本不认为台湾属于中国。越南人也不认同被偷走的岛屿是属于中国的。虚伪！

BaddHamster
Damn right. Bloody Switzerland!!

就是。残忍的瑞士！

 -------------译者：yoy119-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

BevanBoyAus
Whereas Capitalism as typified by the Turnbull Government is all caring and loving? Tell that to out indigenous brethren and under privileged others suffering the humiliation of the cashless welfare card!

然而特恩布尔政府所代表的资本主义就是关照和爱护吗？把这点告诉给土着兄弟们和其他那些穷人们，他们正忍受着空空如也的福利卡所带来的羞辱！

BaddHamster
Well there are an awful lot of Chinese people in the world it would be very strange if they all thought identically.

呦，这世界上有这老多的中国人，如果他们的思想都那么一致的话倒是一件奇怪的事情了。

Huw Williams
The difficult point about Opium is that at that time it was quite legal in the UK. It was openly sold in Grocery shops and laudanum was widely used including by Queen Victoria. Of course many people were against it on principle just as many people are against alcohol today. The 'Opium Wars' were really 'The Trade Wars'. Opium was sold because it was something for which there was a lot of demand - same with Cocaine etc today. The manufactured goods that would have been useful to Chinese people were dismissed by the elite as 'toys' and hard to sell. From today's perspective Opium is a dangerous drug and immoral to sell. But selling guns to third world countries is too. And China does plenty of that today. So does the West. As the saying goes those in glass houses should not throw stones...

关于鸦片的理解难点在于这玩意在当年的英国是相当合法的。在杂货店可以公开售卖鸦片，而且鸦片泡酒也被世人（包括维多利亚女王）广泛接受。当然当时也有人坚决地反对鸦片，就像今天反对烈酒的人那样。“鸦片战争”实际上是“贸易战争”。鸦片被售卖只因它在那里的市场有着巨大的需求 - 和今天的可卡因等一样。要不是因为当年被（中国）精英集团所轻视而难以销售，正规的工业制成品本来很可能造福于中国老百姓的。从今天的看法来讲，鸦片是一种危险的毒品，贩卖鸦片是不道德的。但是把军火卖给第三世界也同样如此（不道德）。今天的中国可不少卖（军火）。西方也一样（卖军火）。正如谚语所云：同在玻璃房里的人们就表互相扔石头了...

-------------译者：yoy119-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

MalicX
Really? Do you really think "we" would tell our university lecturer they should stop talking about it because it hurt our feelings? Do you think "we" would expect the lecturer to accept that this was a good reason not to face up to the truth?

真的吗？你真的认为“我们”会去吩咐我们大学讲师，因为伤害到我们的感情，他们就应该停止讨论相关话题，是吗？你认为“我们”能指望该讲师把这作为一个好理由而不再直面真理吗？

Ben_Yamin
The Chinese people has had two decades of economic boom because labour in China is cheap and the rest of the world especially the West is happy with buying mostly sub-standard quality of rubbish at a cheaper price. The Dalai Lama was not born in Tibet but he is identified as the leader of a free Tibet. You haven't answered my point on how he could have been responsible for the misery that exists in present day Tibet though. Even if I take your word on the events of Tienanmen square being taught in Chinese schools these days interesting to see that they are taught as riots by trouble-makers rather than a movement my dissidents who were sick of an oppressive regime.

因为中国的劳动力便宜，同时世界各国（特别是西方国家）的人们都爱用更便宜的价格购买这些大多为低标次品的垃圾，所以中国人已经有了40年的经济繁荣了。DL喇嘛不是出生在西藏，但他被认为是ZY西藏的领导人。你还没有回答我的问题点：他又怎么可能为今天西藏所存在的苦难负责？就算你关于现在中国学校有教授TAM事件的话是可信的，看到他们（学生）被教导说，那是一场暴徒引发的暴乱，而不是那些痛恨压迫政权的异见人士推动的社会运动，还是觉得很有趣。

-------------译者：yoy119-审核者：龙腾翻译总管------------

MattSpanner
This comment was removed by a moderator because it didn't abide by our community standards. Replies may also be dexed. For more detail see our FAQs.

由于此段评论违反了网络社区规范，它已经被网管删除。跟帖也可能会被锁。更多详情请见常见问题集。

CMT1248
Please can we stop talking about 'generic' Chinese students? I am pretty sure that some students are paid by the government to come here and studying at uni is just a front. They are spies. The majority of students many of whom have gone into great debt want to be here and are desperate to do well. It isn't just the Chinese who carry on like pork chops. Students from the US and haven't got into uni at home come here too and they are often a pain in the proverbial. Often they are very religious and conservative. They drive everyone mad - just imagine a 100 Palins and Trumps! Often they are doing medicine but obxt to classes about contraception abortion and pre-marital sex! Then we have a few students who come to class most Friday afternoons drunk!

拜托大家能不能别再谈论“普通的”中国学生了？我相当确信那些政府公费派来这里大学的人，学生身份只是一个幌子，他们是间谍。大多数学生（一些人已经债台高筑）只是想着待在这里，极度渴望成功而已。可不只有中国人浑身冒着傻气。那些在本国上不了大学的美国学生也来这里了，众所周知他们常常惹人厌烦。表面上他们非常虔诚和守旧。但可以让所有人为之愤怒 - 就想象一下一百位佩林和川普是啥样吧。他们经常嗑药，却总跑到教室里大谈反对避孕、流产和婚前性行为。然后我们还有一些学生会在周五下午醉醺醺地来上课。