为什么中国最伟大的小说几乎不为西方所知 [英国媒体]

每人一小段，翻译我也行！
每日新素材，等你来认领！ http://www.ltaaa.com/translation/ 

-------------译者：逆骑的译想空间-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

When I was a graduate student in Oxford many years ago I shared a house with a brilliant German sinologist who used to push translations my way, stroking his beard with a teasing smile: “Try this – you’ll really enjoy it.” Many visitors popped into our terraced house on Abingdon Road, and one night around the kitchen table I met a fascinating character, rangy with white hair and beard, and a twinkly eye. His name was David Hawkes.

多年前，当我还是一个牛津大学的研究生时，曾经和一位时常怂恿我朝翻译之路发展的杰出德国汉学家合租房子，他总是捋着胡子笑着劝诱说："试试这个，你肯定会喜欢的"。我们在阿宾登路(Abingdon Road)上的住处总有许多不速之客前来造访，在某天夜里的厨房聚会上，我结识了一位有趣的人物，他有一副瘦高身材，蓄着白发白须，还有一双闪闪发亮的眼睛。他的名字叫大卫．霍克斯。

-------------译者：逆骑的译想空间-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

A gifted linguist, he had directed Japanese codebreakers in his early 20s, during the second world war. As a student at Peking University, he had been in Tiananmen Square in 1949 when Mao proclaimed the People’s Republic of China. Later, as a teacher, he had done a wonderful translation of the Songs of the South, part of a poetic tradition earlier than anything that has survived in the west. Then he became professor of Chinese in Oxford, but, as he put it, “I resigned in order to devote my time to translating a Chinese novel … well, the Chinese novel”.

他是一位天才语言学家，在第二次世界大战期间，才20歳出头的他便已受命指导日文电码译员。 1949年，当毛泽东在天安门广场宣布中华人民共和国创立的时候他就在现场，以一个北京大学研究生的身份。之后，作为一名教师，他完成了楚辞·南方之歌—比西方存留的任何作品年代都更早的诗歌典籍之一——的精彩翻译，接着，他出任牛津大学的中文系教授，不过，正如他所说的：「我已经为了可以全心投入一部中文小说的翻译而辞职了...嗯，中文小说。」

The book was Dream of the Red Chamber, also known as The Story of the Stone, written by Cao Xuequin. The critic Anthony West called it “one of the great novels of world literature … to the Chinese as Proust is to the French or Karamazov to the Russians”.

这部小说就是红楼梦，又名石头记，由曹雪芹所着。评论家安东尼‧威斯特(Anthony West)誉之为「世界文学中最伟大的小说之一...对中国人来说，其地位就如同普鲁斯特(Proust)的作品之于法国人，或卡拉马佐夫兄弟(Karamazov)之于俄罗斯人。」








-------------译者：渺然有思-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

backfeed 2h ago
An interesting link:
http://thelectern.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/dream-of-red-mansions-cao-xueqin.html

 一个有趣的链接：
 http://thelectern.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/dream-of-red-mansions-cao-xueqin.htm
 
TibetanExistence 6h ago
I don't know anyone who reads Chinese literature except for those who call themselves 'sinophiles', one has to be to find fifty-page allusions to the minutiae of some obscure military event of Chinese history interesting to read.
Japanese literature leaves one with a much better impression, however. Both classical and modern. It is said that the Japanese are the only race who can express eternity in a sentence...

 除了一些哈中的人，我没见过有谁去读中国文学。你得翻看50页的典故才能理解中国历史上隐晦军事事件细节的有意思之处。
 日本文学则给人更好的印象。可以说是古典与现代并存。据说日本是唯一的能够用一句话体现（情感）永恒的种族
（ps:懒得吐槽……）
 
Philip Leung  TibetanExistence 38m ago
Your point is undermined by the fact that some of the best known Japanese writers like Akutagawa Ryūnosuke and Natsume Sōseki were well versed in Chinese literature and many wrote Chinese style poems.

（楼上）你的观点是站不住脚的，事实上有名的日本作家如芥川龙之介 和 夏目漱石都很精通中国文学并写了很多中国古体诗

 -------------译者：Cier-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

KThorpe 16h ago
Easy answer to Why is China’s greatest novel virtually unknown in the west? because it is incoherent and tedious. I regret the hours that I spent reading 'Dream of the Red Chamber' and would advise everyone not to bother. There are many far better books out there that you will not waste a chunk of your life reading.

答案很简单，为什么中国最伟大的小说在西方几乎一无所知？因为它（对于我们来说）既不连贯又繁琐的。我很后悔我花了几个小时读《红楼梦》，并建议大家别去为它纠结了。有很多更好的书，不至于让你浪费一部分生命去阅读。

Hunca Munca 20h ago
TLDNR

 太长不看。

Carol Daeley 23h ago
It surprises me to hear it called "virtually unknown." Widely read, no, but that is probably true of most long novels. I wonder how widely read those two English 18th-century masterpieces, Clarissa and Tom Jones, are. The latter has the advantage of a rollicking movie version. Hawkes' splendid The Stoty of the Stone was, for me, like finding a new continent because I had previously only known the 1929 abridged version. I haven't yet read "A Dream of Red Mansions" but plan to at least do some comparisons with the Hawkes version. Obviously, I'm a big fan of very long novels, but if this one really is unknown, as opposed to unread, it's a terrible shame.

当我得知它被称为“几乎不为人所知”时我都惊呆了。确实没有受到广泛的阅读，但是大部分的长篇小说都是这种境遇。我不知道18世纪的两本英语杰作《克拉丽莎》和《汤姆琼斯》有多少人看过。后者还被改编成了欢快的电影，因此更为人所知。霍克斯翻译的那本脍炙人口的《石头记》，对我来说（读到它）就像发现了新大陆，因为在这之前我只看过1929年的删节版。我还没有读《红楼梦》原版，但至少要与霍克斯译版作作对比。显然，我是个超长篇小说粉，如果你说没看过这本小说那还好，而如果你说你根本都不知道这本小说的存在，那真的是一件羞愧的事情。

-------------译者：Cier-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

SE26lad 1d ago
 Contributor
It took me a very long time to read The Dream of the red chamber, but it was worth it. First couple of chapters are awful, but then it takes off and is brilliant. I was really sad to get to the end of the book.

 我花了很长的时间去读红楼梦，但它值得上用那么久去读。本书前半部分挺糟糕（可能是歪果仁没理清书中的关系所以感觉就是mess啊），但之后就渐入佳境。看到这本书的结尾部分时我简直伤心死了。

KThorpe  SE26lad 16h ago
The moment it 'takes off' is only when you realise you have finished the last page. I think it has only become a 'classic' because there are so few competitors from that time and context.

 这本书最高潮的部分应该是在你意识到你已经把它读完的那一刻。我认为它只能够算得上是“经典”，因为在那个时代和背景下它几乎没有对手。

SE26lad  KThorpe 15h ago
 Contributor
I must disagree. The term classic is pretty meaningless anyway. All that matters is whether or not the reader personally enjoys it. I find Wuthering Heights insufferably boring for example. But I loved Dream of the red chamber, almost precisely because not that much happens. It is just really agreeable and, for me anyway, I really like that.

恕我无法赞同。“经典”这个词几乎是没啥意义的。最重要的是读者是否喜欢它。拿《呼啸山庄》为例，我觉得无聊死了。但我爱《红楼梦》，因为它语句精炼到一笔不多一笔不少。这真的很好，对我来说，我真的宁愿小说里少点废话。

-------------译者：Cier-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

SE26lad  KThorpe 15h ago
 Contributor
Though obviously some will love it, others not.

 很明显有些人会喜欢它，有些人不会。

canbeanybody 2d ago
"Why is China’s greatest novel virtually unknown in the west?"
One reason is perhaps the western mainstream media is so obsessed with regime change and the novel has no place in their pursuit.
Another reason perhaps is that it had never occurred to the western mainstream media in their wildest dreams that Chinese might have some good novels at all.
How many western journalists are genuine journalists, and how many of them do have threshold understanding of Chinese to the degree that they have time, desire and capacity to read through those thousands pages of Chinese novels?

“为什么在西方，中国最伟大的小说几乎无人所知？”
一个原因也许是西方主流媒体痴迷于体制变迁，小说可不属于他们的追求范畴。
另一个原因也许是，西方主流媒体从来没有想过中国会有什么好的小说。
有多少西方记者是真正的记者？有多少西方记者对汉语有基本的理解以至于他们有时间，欲望和能力去阅读几千页的中国小说？

-------------译者：渺然有思-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

Joshua Lovett  canbeanybody 20h ago
Didn't know the western mainstream media regularly talked literature, but ok.

我还真没注意到西方媒体也经常谈论文学呢，但是没问题。

KThorpe  Joshua Lovett 16h ago
You clearly do not read this section of 'The Guardian' very often it is almost incessant here.

你肯定没有经常读卫报的这个版面，经常会有刊出

F.A. Hutchison 2d ago
I found myself in the midst of my poverty and wretchedness, thinking about the female companions of my youth. As I went over them in my mind’s eye one by one it suddenly came over me that those slips of girls – which is all they were then – were in every way, both morally and intellectually, superior to the ‘grave and moustachioed signor’ I am now supposed to have become. The realisation brought with it an overpowering sense of shame … And I resolved then, however unsightly my shortcomings might be, I must not, for the sake of keeping them hid, allow those wonderful girls to pass into oblivion without a memorial.”

处于贫困和可怜之中的我，会回忆起年轻时我的那些花儿。每当此刻，这些远超须眉的女子，（她们的）智慧与贤淑便向我一齐袭来。这些意识使我深深羞愧……随后我释然了，也许我有着不齿的缺点，我不会为了隐藏它们，而让这些美丽的女子没有纪念便滑向遗忘
（译者：翻译的简直崩溃……）

-------------译者：文英-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

KevinfromChina 2d ago
Here's a video about Mr Hawkes, Mr Minford and their collaboration on the translation of DOTRC.
http://tv.cntv.cn/video/C10167/af4eca043b4b3de0939fdc1e0a4e5c4f
 
 这是关于霍克斯先生、闵福德先生和他们合作翻译红楼梦的视频链接，http://tv.cntv.cn/video/C10167/af4eca043b4b3de0939fdc1e0a4e5c4f
 
jacoboo 2d ago
There are dozens (hundreds?) of masterpieces of European literature that are practically unknown in Britain and the US. Experts know them, and they may be translated once every 50 years, but no one reads them or talks about them. The China-is-so-different argument is flawed.
 
 数十（数百？）本欧洲文学杰作几乎不为英国和美国人所知。这些小说几乎是每50年才被翻译一次，虽然为（少数）行家所认知，但却没人去读和谈论它们。所以“中国是如此不同”这一说法是有失偏颇的。
 
CommieWealth  jacoboo 2d ago
There is a good reason for supporting booksellers of Chinese literature right now, especially of one of the Four Classics which were compulsory reading for Chinese mandarins in the 18th and 19th century. Hint.

现在，有很好的理由去支持销售中国文学的书商了，特别是作为四大古典名着之一的红楼梦，提示，在18世纪和19世纪中国官员是被强制阅读这四本小说的。

-------------译者：文英-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

quarrytone  jacoboo 2d ago
"The China-is-so-different argument is flawed."
Agreed, Chinese classics are very accessible. In fact the world's most subtle book the Dao de Jing is the second most translated world book after the Bible.
 
 我同意（楼上）“中国（文学）是如此不同这一说法是有失偏颇的。”中国的古典作品的传诵率还是颇高的，实际上，继世界性书籍圣经之后，道德经是世界上第二大规模译作。
 
Admore  jacoboo 2d ago
Perhaps it's a translation issue, but "hundreds" seems optimistic to me having trudged through various "THE novel of _____" .
I truly wonder if #37 down the list from that one is going to be better. I do hold out hope that #37 is actually the lovely, clever, powerful, whatever, book I'm looking for, and "The novel of _____" is the sort of thing everyone says is great, and admires, but no one really likes, or re-reads, ever.

（楼上）可能这真是翻译的问题吧，但是对于我而言，需要艰难耕耘的各式“____小说”，只有“数百本”（不为人知）似乎是过于乐观了。
我真的不知道列表上#37往后的（译者：小说吗？）会不会更好，事实上，不管我在找寻什么书，我仍坚持认为#37是可爱、饶有趣味和震撼人心的。而“____小说”也是诸如此类的小说，人人都称赞，但却少有人真正喜欢和重读。

-------------译者：宁不凡-审核者：悟空与师傅------------

uweott 2d ago
Because its hard to relay to characters so fundamentally foreign like chinese.That is one of the reason too why people dont like to watch movies with minorities in it.

因为很难与我们完全不一样的中国人角色进行某种连结。这也是人们不喜欢看含有少数族裔的电影的原因所在。

quarrytone  uweott 2d ago
Yet Samuel L Jackson (from a minority) is the 2nd biggest box office draw after Harrison Ford.
You really should get out this local straight jacket. Russian literature taught me more about myself than any narrowly British or American literature. Shakespeare is the world's bard, everywhere from Japan to African tribes totally gets it (his drama) and thinks it speaks of their own heritage.

然而，塞缪尔·杰克逊（来自于少数族群）是仅次于哈里森·福特的票房最高的演员。
你真的应当脱离本土的束缚。俄罗斯文学比英文文学都更加的让我认识自己。莎士比亚是世界的诗人，任何地方从日本到非洲部落都会欣赏它（戏剧），都把它当作自己民族的遗产。

Beth Huesing  uweott 2d ago
Wow, talk about a small, small world you live in enhanced by your white privilege.

 哇，你在谈一个白人特权至上的小小的世界。

Jen Wimbers  uweott 1d ago
pretty sure you mean 'relate'. and no. just no. dearie me.

你把relate错写成relay了吧。我不同意你的看法。
 
Rex Bowan 2d ago
This article has piqued my interest. War and Peace was a lousy adaptation of the war and the Pierre bits of War and Peace which are the distinctive parts.

这篇文章激起了我的兴趣。《战争与和平》是对战争的粗糙改编，不过《战争与和平》中关于彼埃尔的部分很有特色。