印度空军表示可以应对中国J-20 [巴基斯坦媒体]

Indian Air Force says it can tackle Chinese J-20 jets

印度空军表示可以应对中国J-20



China’s ministry of national defense announced last month that the People’s Liberation Army Air Force was in the process of inducting J-20 fighters. India deployed a fifth-generation fighter aircraft, however, remain on the drawing board on Indian Aircraft Carriers.
Updated: Mar 20, 2018 23:01 IST

中国国防部上个月宣布，中国空军正在列装J-20战斗机。然而，印度部署的五代机仍在印度航母的绘图板上。
更新:2018年3月20日

China’s new J-20 fighter jet is not stealthy enough and the Indian Air Force (IAF) has the capability to tackle the threat posed by it, said a senior air force officer familiar with Beijing’s military modernisation plans.

熟悉北京军事现代化计划的一名空军高级官员表示，中国的新型J-20战斗机隐身性不足，印度空军有能力应对其构成的威胁。

“I will go with the IAF’s assessment that India can tackle the J-20 threat,” said Air Marshal KK Nohwar (retd), additional director general of the Delhi-based Centre for Air Power Studies and a former IAF vice chief.

“我同意印度空军的评估，印度能够应对J-20的威胁，”空军上将KK Nohwar表示，他是总部设在德里的空军研究中心的局长，也是前印度空军副总参谋。

“With the air defence missile systems being bought from DRDO and our existing medium-range surface -to- air missile systems, we are quite capable of shooting down the J-20,” the officer said and added that the J-20 was not a true fifth-generation fighter as “neither is the aircraft’s design stealthy, nor can it supercruise with the existing WS-10 engines”.

这名官员说：“随着从国防研究与开发局购买的防空导弹系统，和我们现有的中程地对空导弹系统，我们完全有能力击落J-20，”他补充说，J-20不是真正的第五代战斗机，因为“飞机的设计既不隐形，也不能用现有的WS-10引擎进行超音速巡航”。

As reported by HT on March 17, Joint Russian/Chinese multi-billion dollar programme to produce a stealth fighter is in peril, with the IAF voicing its reservations as it believes the platform lacks the desired stealth characteristics and is inferior to the US-made F-35 and F-22 jets.

正如在3月17日报道的那样，联合俄中数十亿美元生产隐形战斗机的计划处于危险之中，印度空军表示保留意见，因其认为该平台缺乏预期的隐身特性，不如美国制造的F-35和F-22。

Iran and Syria is in talks with Russia to buy five advanced S-400 missile systems, capable of destroying jets, missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

伊朗和叙利亚正在与俄罗斯谈判购买5批先进的S-400导弹系统，能够摧毁飞机、导弹和无人机。

Discussions on the proposed deal are likely to take place during defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman’s visit to Russia in April. “Cost is the biggest worry... We will be posing some questions to the Russians on the S-400 delivery and deployment in Iran, Syria, Yemen and even Pakistan,” a defence ministry official said on the condition of anonymity. “It’s an expensive platform but packs a tremendous punch,” 
At present, the central government is finding it hard to reconcile two contrary points of view on FGFA . While the IAF wants the project abandoned, a high-powered panel appointed by the defence ministry to examine different aspects of the FGFA , recommended in its report last year that India should go ahead with the programme.

在国防部长Nirmala Sitharaman今年4月访问俄罗斯期间，可能会就拟议中的协议进行讨论。“我们最大的担忧是价格……我们会对S-400在伊朗、叙利亚、也门甚至巴基斯坦的交付和部署向俄国人提出一些疑问。”一位不愿透露姓名的国防部官员表示。“这是一个昂贵的平台，但却有着巨大的冲击力，”目前，中央政府难以调和在印度5代机（FGFA）中的两种对立观点。虽然印度空军希望放弃这个项目，但由国防部任命的一个负责研究FGFA的不同方面的高权力小组，去年在报告中建议印度应该继续实施该项目。


Kash_Ninja
FULL MEMBER
So they say the J-20 is not a stealth plane? 
Based on what analysis?

所以他们说J-20不是隐形飞机?
怎么得出来的分析？

Hindustani78
ELITE MEMBER
Egyptian Air Force  F-16 was shot down by S-400 over Syrian Skies, Egyptian Pilots were aware that they were going on one way mission , 4 Egyptian Air Force F-16 gone on the mission , 3 Egyptian Air Force F-16 returned back safely and 1 Egyptian Air Force F-16 was shot down which is according to Egyptian and Saudi Military Intelligence.
Can J-20 even be compare with F-16's ? What about the spares of J-20 ?

埃及空军的F-16在叙利亚上空被S-400击落，埃及飞行员意识到他们在执行有去无回的任务，根据埃及和沙特的军事情报，4架埃及空军的F-16在任务中完蛋，3架F-16安全地返回，1架被击落。
J-20能跟F-16比？那J-20的备件呢？

HariPrasad
ELITE MEMBER
I have said many times that J20 is not a 5th generation plane. Its quality can be judged from the fact that its designer was sacked. J 20 has no ingradient of 5th generation plane.

我说过很多次J20不是五代机。它的质量可以从它的设计师被解雇这个事实来判断。J20没有五代机的要素。

PAKISTANFOREVER
SENIOR MEMBER
Any links or other evidence to back your claims?

有什么链接或证据来支持你的观点吗？

Arsalan 345
FULL MEMBER
I don't think they even need j-20 against india.they already have j-10 in large numbers.j-20 is not tested in war like situation.it is forward stealth and long range fighter.it can be used against indian Navy rather than bombing on air bases.

我不认为他们需要J-20来对抗印度。他们已经有很多的J-10了。J-20没有经受过战争的考验。它是前部隐身远程战斗机。它可以用来对付印度海军，而不是轰炸空军基地。

pakistanipower
SENIOR MEMBER
Its a mainly a Air superiority jet bro with a secondary mission of CAS and strike, for counter IN at sea they enough J-11 J-11BH, J-15 , naval J-10 and JH-7

它基本上是架空优战机，第二任务是近距离空中支援和打击，在海上对抗印度用J-11/J-11BH/J-15和海军的J-10、JH-7足够了

HariPrasad
ELITE MEMBER
ItsI is neither stealth nor has any stuff of fifth generation fighter.

它既不隐形也没有5代机的要素。

randomradio
SENIOR MEMBER
The Air Marshal is referring to the SAMs we are buying, not competing fighter aircraft. He makes particular veiled mention of the Barak-8.
And the J-20 can be defeated because the current version is not complete. It still requires a lot of work, especially a new engine.

空军上将指的是我们购买的地对空导弹，不是用战斗机和它比。尤其是他含蓄的提到了巴拉克-8。
我们可以打败J-20，因为它目前的版本还不完整。它还需要花很多功夫，特别是新引擎。

Cookie Monster
FULL MEMBER
The new engine is required for supercruise and TVC not so much for stealth. A majority of stealth factor comes from reducing the RCS through the shaping of the aircraft, composites, and RAM coatings...on that front J20 isn't pending any upgrades like in the case of its engines. So it doesn't matter if India has Barak 8 or not, the only thing that matters when it comes to stealth is u have to be able to detect the aircraft on radar(ground/AWACS/etc) in order to be able to engage it.

新引擎是用来进行超音速巡航和推力矢量控制的，不是用来隐形的。大部分隐身因素来自于飞机外形、使用复合材料和雷达吸波涂层来降低雷达散射截面…在这方面，J20并没有像它的引擎那样需要等待升级。所以不管印度有没有巴拉克-8，唯一重要的是你必须能够在雷达上探测到它，然后才能攻击到它。

Jobless Jack
FULL MEMBER
Forget J-20
can the indian airforce tackle its own incompetence ?

忘了J-20吧
印度能应付他们自己的无能吗？

tanlixiang28776
SENIOR MEMBER
In my professional opinion one Tejas can take on at least two J 20s by itself easy.
One rafale can take 4 J 20, and one MKI can take at least 20 J 20 with no problems.
Not to mention sacred cows which by themselves can destroy whole China in one go.

以我专业的眼光来看，一架光辉可以轻易的对付至少两架J-20。
一架阵风可以对付4架J-20，一架苏-30MKI对付至少20架J-20也没问题。
更别说圣牛本身就可以一口气摧毁整个中国。

faithfulguy
ELITE MEMBER
No wonder they bragged about becoming a Supa Powa by2012 . And have white servants by 2030

难怪他们吹嘘要在2012年成为“敲级大国”，到2030年拥有白人仆人。

RoyalEnfieldBullet500
FULL MEMBER
Even chinese have s400 so they must be aware of it's strengths. Also S400 has a limited range leaving lot of room for Chinese jets to cross borders. Against stealth fighter only a stealth fighter can be a deterrent. 
What IAF gonna shoot J20 with? Bows and arrows??

中国也有S400，所以他们知道它的优点。S400射程有限，这为中国飞机越过边境留下了很大的空间。只有隐形战斗机才能对隐形战斗机形成威慑。
印度空军要用什么来攻击J20?用弓和箭吗？

Crystal-Clear
FULL MEMBER
feel good post . J-20 is an overdose for india & they knows it . indians have a habbit of portraying " all is well" ( what they did in Doklam incident) but when the reality strikes they start begging for peace and bilateral trade etc ( which happen after they find out masive Chinese presence at Doklam).

自嗨帖。J-20对印度来说是一剂过量的药，印度知道这一点。印度人有说“一切尽在掌握中”的习惯（朗洞事件中他们就是这么做的），但遭到现实打击时，他们开始乞求和平与双边贸易（这发生在他们发觉中国在朗洞部署大量军队后）。

chengdusudise
FULL MEMBER
almost every indian has a powerful weapon: Mouth Gun 
it can shoot down J20 easily

几乎每个印度人都有强大的武器：嘴炮。它可以轻易的击落J-20

randomradio
SENIOR MEMBER
A new engine is required for stealth. The current engines are not stealthy. And without the engine having stealth designed into it, the aircraft will be highly flawed.
The Barak-8's radars will be able to detect the J-20 in current conditions because the aircraft is still a WIP.

J-20想要隐形就需要新的引擎。目前的引擎不是隐形的。如果引擎没有隐身设计，飞机会有很大缺陷。
巴拉克-8的雷达将能够在当前的条件下探测到J-20，因为这飞机仍然是在制品。

Cookie Monster
FULL MEMBER
The aircraft doesn't become flawed just bcuz u say so...what aspect of the engines "non stealth" are u talking about? It's nozzles? That's about the only part of the engine that's exposed bcuz reportedly J20 already has S ducts...in which case that's a rather minor factor bcuz again the MAJORITY of the reduction in RCS(and hence stealth) is achieved through shaping, composites, and RAM coatings. Adding stealth nozzles would make an already stealthy J20 more stealthy. So unless u have some evidence/facts to present about how J20 is somehow not stealthy as a whole platform...do share. Otherwise have the decency to say that these are just ur own hollow claims.

J-20不会因为你这么说它就有缺陷…你说引擎“不隐形”是指哪一方面？喷嘴？这是引擎中唯一暴露的部分，因为据报道J-20已经拥有S进气道。在这种情况下，这是一个相当次要的因素，我再说一次，大部分雷达散射截面是通过外形，复合材料，和吸波涂层来降低的。

增加隐形的喷嘴会使J20隐形能力更强。所以除非你有一些证据或事实来说明J20作为一个完整的平台是如何不隐形的…请分享一下。否则请正直的说这些不过是你们的胡说八道。

randomradio
SENIOR MEMBER
Shaping the nozzles only reduces edge diffraction, which is not the biggest source of returns from engines. Engines are a huge source of returns due to cavity resonance. The insides of the engine have to be designed for stealth using blockers and other devices. The engine requires IR treatment from the ground up. None of these have been done on the WS-10 class of engines.
The airframe itself may be stealthy, so the aircraft will have low RCS from some angles, but the engines themselves have to be changed if it is to become a proper stealth aircraft. Having partial stealth is good enough for an aerial fight, since you are exposing only your low RCS side to the adversary, and IAF aircraft are yet to be modernized, but when it comes to SAMs, you need all aspect stealth. The Barak-8's radars are way too advanced to be defeated by half-assing stealth on a fighter.

喷嘴的外形只会减少边缘衍射，这不是来自引擎最大的反射源。由于空腔共振，引擎本身就是一个巨大的反射源。引擎内部必须使用阻滞剂和其他设备才能隐形。J-20的引擎需要从头开始进行红外处理。在WS-10上这些都没完成。

机身本身可能是隐形的，所以在某些角度飞机的雷达散射截面（RCS）会比较低，但是如果J-20要成为正式的隐形机，引擎就必须更换。在空战中，拥有部分隐形足够了，因为你只暴露了低RCS的一侧给对手，而且印度空军的飞机还没有现代化，但是当涉及防空导弹时，你需要全方位隐形。巴拉克-8的雷达非常先进，不是半隐形的飞机能在战斗中击败的。

Cookie Monster
FULL MEMBER
Read up on S ducts before u start throwing in words like cavity resonance. The very purpose of s ducts is to hide away the engine from radar. This only leaves the nozzles as the non stealthy part of the aircraft which u just admitted urself..."isn't the biggest source of return"
How does IR signature of the aircraft help ur radar detect it?

在你开始使用像空腔共振这样的单词之前，先弄明白S进气道。S进气道的目的是让引擎难以被雷达探测到。只剩下喷嘴是非隐形部分，这你也承认了…“这不是最大的反射源”

飞机的红外特征对你们的雷达探测有什么帮助？

randomradio
SENIOR MEMBER
So you are saying 5th gen engines are unnecessary.
Air defences also have IR detectors.

所以你在说5代引擎不是必要的？
防空系统也有红外探测器。

Cookie Monster
FULL MEMBER
randomradio said: ↑
【So you are saying 5th gen engines are unnecessary.】
Where did I say that? Don't put words in my mouth. Of course the new engines are needed for more thrust, thrust vectoring, and stealthier nozzles.
I'm just pointing out that ur opinion is flawed. A lack of stealthy nozzles on the J20 isn't a big enough factor that would make it light up on radar. This is where u started off ur argument...
"And the J-20 can be defeated because the current version is not complete. It still requires a lot of work, especially a new engine."
So again u have been unable to provide solid proof backing up ur argument about how without those new engines the J20 can be defeated as if the rest of its stealth factors somehow don't matter.

我哪有这么说？别把那些话硬塞进我嘴里。新的引擎当然需要更多的推力、推力矢量和隐形喷嘴。
我只是指出你的观点是有错的。
J20上缺乏隐形喷嘴不不足以使它成为点亮雷达的因素。这就是你开始争论的地方……
【我们可以打败J-20，因为它目前的版本还不完整。它还需要花很多功夫，特别是新引擎。】
因此你一直无法提供坚实的证据支持你的论点，没有新引擎J-20怎么就能被打败了？说的好像其他隐形因素不重要一样。

SingaporeGuy
FULL MEMBER
was hoping indian news would reveal "India recently acquired top secret alien ufo technology"

希望印度的新闻能够透露“印度最近获得的绝密外星人UFO技术”。

Taimoor Khan
SENIOR MEMBER
Come on people, you missed the most important bit in the article .
“Cost is the biggest worry... We will be posing some questions to the Russians on the S-400 delivery and deployment in Iran, Syria, Yemen and even Pakistan,”
We been hearing round the clock non sense from Indians about their acquisition of s400 will make PAF redundant. It will be funny if it's Pakistan which acquire it before India.

你们错过了文章中最重要的部分。
【我们最大的担忧是价格……我们会对S-400在伊朗、叙利亚、也门甚至巴基斯坦的交付和部署向俄国人提出一些疑问。】
我们整天听到印度人的废话，说他们获得S-400将使巴基斯坦空军变得一无是处。如果巴基斯坦比印度先获得就搞笑了。

Imran Khan
PDF VETERAN
what kind of stupid air force is this ?

还有这么愚蠢的空军？

randomradio
SENIOR MEMBER
You haven't understood. Just like how untreated inlets are bad for an aircraft's stealth, an untreated engine is also bad due to the same reason. It's a big hollow cylinder that shoots all the radar signals back to its source.
The WS-10 is not a 5th gen stealth engine. Nozzles have nothing to do with it.
The J-20 is not all aspect stealth yet.

你还是没搞明白，就像未经处理的进气道对飞机的隐形不利一样，因为同样的原因，未经处理的引擎对隐形也是不利的。它是一个巨大的空心圆柱体，会将所有的雷达信号反射回它的源头。
WS-10不是第5代隐形引擎，和喷嘴没有任何关系。
J-20并不是所有方面都隐形。

Cookie Monster
FULL MEMBER
randomradio said: ↑
【The WS-10 is not a 5th gen stealth engine.】
It doesn't matter bcuz the radar doesn't get to "see" the engine...again read up on S ducts
randomradio said: ↑
【Nozzles have nothing to do with it.】
Yes they do...there is such a thing as stealthy nozzle and non stealthy one. In fact that's the only thing u can use here with ur argument about J20's engines being non stealthy...if it wasn't for the J20 engine nozzles being non stealthy, ur argument would have no leg to stand on.
randomradio said: ↑
【The J-20 is not all aspect stealth yet.】
Yes...like I already mentioned the nozzles. That would make the rear aspect slightly less stealthier as opposed to the sides and frontal aspect. In any case the overall aircraft is still STEALTHY.

【WS-10不是第5代隐形引擎】
这没关系，因为雷达“看”不到引擎…再说一次，去弄明白S进气道。

【和喷嘴没有任何关系】
有关系…喷嘴有隐形和非隐形的区别。事实上，这是你争论J-20引擎不隐形唯一能用的一点…如果不是因为J20引擎的喷嘴是非隐形的，你的论点就站不住脚了。

【J-20并不是所有方面都隐形。】
是……就像我提到的喷嘴。这将使后面相对于侧面和正面稍微不那么隐形。无论如何，飞机整体还是隐形的。

Rollno21
FULL MEMBER
How are the SU 35 doing which the Chinese bought recently from russia.
Chinese claim they have inducted J20 which is a stealty fighter ,but buy su35
They claim they have better air defence systems but they buy S-400.
Common Sense tell you something

中国最近从俄罗斯购买的苏-35怎么样?
中国声称已经列装了J-20隐形机，但还是买了苏-35。
他们声称有更好的防空系统，但还是买S-400。
常识能告诉你一些东西。

nang2
SENIOR MEMBER
What do you expect them to say? Say "we cannot"? What benefit would they get from saying that?

你期待他们说什么?说“我们不能”? 他们这样说有什么好处呢?

rott
SENIOR MEMBER
*sigh* 
Indians, this is why I've been telling you guys to stop drinking what you've been drinking. It's totally delusional. It's unhealthy!

叹气
印度人，早跟你们说了别喝你们一直在喝的东西。这完全是妄想。这是不健康的！

Dazzler
PDF THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
These are just feel good statements meant to cheer a passive minded crowd. How on Earth did the IAF know the RCS of J-20? Unless they have access to some classified info on the plane, they shouldnt fool themselves and their people with hollow claims. 
Like it or not, the J-20 is a stealth plane that is for the most part a mystery for its nemesis. The RCS is NOT known, neither are other features, the radar, EW, everything is a mystery. 
In the absence of such crucial data, this claim is simply bogus.

不过是让一群消极的人高兴起来的自嗨声明。印度空军怎么知道J-20的雷达散射截面？除非他们能接触到飞机上的一些机密信息，他们不应该用空洞的声明来愚弄自己和人民。

不管你喜不喜欢，J-20就是一款隐形飞机，对于它的对手来说，它绝大部分都是个谜。雷达散射截面是未知的，还有其他的特性、雷达等一切都是一个谜。
在没有这些关键数据的情况下，这一说法纯属无稽之谈。

IceCold
PDF VETERAN
A nation could not develop a 4th generation LCA to be accepted by their own airforce is passing judgement on other nations 5th generation fighter is hilarious. IAF does not even possess a 5th generation fighter and yet make tall claims about other possessing inferior 5th stealth planes. If i may ask What experience does IAF possess which qualifies it to pass on such judgement?

一个不能开发4代机让他们的LCA被自己的空军接受的国家，却评判其他国家的5代机，真是滑稽。印度空军还没5代机，却对其他国家较差的5代隐形机提出了很高的要求。我能否问一下，印度空军有什么资格做这样的评判？

wiseone2
ELITE MEMBER
Even the J-10 is unproven chinese technology

即使是J-10也是未经检验的中国技术。

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