巴基斯坦面临落入中国“债务陷阱”的危险 [巴基斯坦媒体]

Pakistan in danger of falling into China’s “debt trap”

巴基斯坦面临落入中国“债务陷阱”的危险


Last year, with more than $1 billion in debt to China, Sri Lanka handed over a port to companies owned by the Chinese government. Now Djibouti, home to the US military’s main base in Africa, looks about to cede control of another key port to a Beijing-linked company, and the US is not happy about it.
Beijing “encourages dependency using opaque contracts, predatory loan practices, and corrupt deals that mire nations in debt and undercut their sovereignty, denying them their long-term, self-sustaining growth,” said US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson on March 6. “Chinese investment does have the potential to address Africa’s infrastructure gap, but its approach has led to mounting debt and few, if any, jobs in most countries,” he added.
Some call this “debt-trap diplomacy“: Offer the honey of cheap infrastructure loans, with the sting of default coming if smaller economies can’t generate enough free cash to pay their interest down. In Sri Lanka, acrimony remains around Hambatota and projects like “the world’s emptiest airport.”
China has characterized its “Belt and Road” initiative as a win-win for its aspirations to become a global trade leader and developing economies’ desire to fund transportation infrastructure. It has certainly filled the vacuum created by a shrinking American presence in global institutions. But as with Western internationalist projects, China is also facing accusations of imperialist behavior when its debt plans go wrong.
The Center for Global Development, a non-profit research organization, analyzed debt to China that will be incurred by nations participating in the current Belt and Road investment plan. Eight nations will find themselves vulnerable to above-average debt: Djibouti, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, the Maldives, Mongolia, Montenegro, Pakistan, and Tajikistan.
The researchers note that they did not estimate how this debt would effect growth, and that they needed to assemble much of their data from media reports. But they still say their evidence should raise concerns about economic distress stemming from debt that would undermine development efforts altogether. In the past, China has responded to the debtors inconsistently and hasn’t followed best practices adopted by international lenders working with poor countries. Sometimes, the debt has been forgiven; other times, disputed territory or control of infrastructure has been demanded as recompense.
They argue that China should work to bring other countries into their investment programs to spread debt more equally, and adopt stricter standards and more transparency about how sustainable its support for developing economies really is. Some countries aren’t waiting on China to take action: Pakistan and Nepal turned down Chinese infrastructure loans last year in favor of other sources of funding.
https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1GK114

去年，斯里兰卡因欠中国超过10亿美元的债务，把一个港口移交给了中国政府所有的公司。如今，美国军方在非洲的主要基地所在——吉布提似乎即将把另一个关键港口的控制权拱手让给一家与北京有关的公司，而美国对此并不满意。

3月6日，美国国务卿雷克斯•蒂勒森表示，中国政府“鼓励依赖不透明的合同、掠夺性贷款业务和腐败的交易，让这些国家陷入债务，削弱它们的主权，剥夺它们长期、自我持续的增长。”他补充道:“中国的投资确实有可能解决非洲的基础设施缺口，但它的做法导致大多数国家的债务不断增加，就业机会也在变少。”

一些人称之为“债务陷阱外交”:提供廉价基础设施贷款的蜜糖，如果较小的经济体无法拿出足够的自由现金来支付利息，违约的刺痛就随之而来。在斯里兰卡，激烈的争吵仍然围绕着哈姆巴托塔和“世界上最空旷的机场”等项目。

中国将其“一带一路”倡议描述为一种双赢，因为中国渴望成为全球贸易领袖，发展中经济体渴望获得交通基础设施的资金。它无疑填补了美国在全球机构中日益萎缩的势力所造成的真空。但与西方国际主义项目一样，中国在债务计划出现问题时也面临着帝国主义行为的指责。

非营利研究机构全球发展中心分析了参与当前“一带一路”投资计划的国家对中国的债务。8个国家将发现他们自己容易受到高于平均水平的债务的影响：吉布提、吉尔吉斯斯坦、老挝、马尔代夫、蒙古、黑山、巴基斯坦和塔吉克斯坦。


研究人员指出，他们没有评估这些债务将如何影响经济增长，他们需要从媒体报道中收集大量数据。但他们仍然表示，他们的证据应该引起对债务的担忧，因为债务会破坏发展的全部努力。过去，中国对债务国的回应是不一致的，并没有遵循国际贷款机构与穷国合作的最佳做法。有时候，债务会被原谅;其他时候，有争议的领土或基础设施的控制权会被要求作为补偿。

他们认为，中国应该努力将其他国家纳入投资项目，以更公平地分摊债务，并在支持发展中经济体的可持续性方面采用更严格的标准和更高的透明度。一些国家并没有等待中国采取行动:巴基斯坦和尼泊尔去年拒绝了中国的基础设施贷款，转而支持其他资金来源。

shahbaz baig
FULL MEMBER 巴
We can understand why they are putting pakistan into account. US kindly stay away from pakistan and compete china without force and without propaganda. We as pakistani believe on china's dream but not blindly we know what to do. We are looking for other countries to join us and invest in pakistan rather then putting pakistan into debt Trap country. But yeah it's US who put pakistan in a list of dangrous countries so other countries dont go to invest in pakistan except china. US Stop your hypocrisy..
Thanks China.

我们可以理解他们为什么要把巴基斯坦考虑进去。美国友好地远离巴基斯坦，在没有武力和宣传的情况下与中国展开竞争。我们巴基斯坦人相信中国的梦想，但不盲目，我们知道该怎么做。我们正在寻找其他国家加入我们，投资巴基斯坦，而不是把巴基斯坦拖入债务陷阱。但是，是的，是美国把巴基斯坦列入了危险国家名单，所以其他国家不去巴基斯坦投资，除了中国。美国停止你的虚伪……
感谢中国。

Kaniska
SENIOR MEMBER美 印
I think China and Pakistan's interest align with each other in long run. So irrespective of potential debt situation, China is the best bet for Pakistan to improve its economic situation.

我认为中国和巴基斯坦的利益从长远来看是一致的。因此，无论潜在的债务状况如何，中国都是巴基斯坦改善其经济状况的最佳选择。

Vortex
FULL MEMBER
Guys, remember there is no friend in politics or geopolitics affairs.
So we should stay very carefull with loans. But in the case of China and Pakistan, I think that we understand that China needs Pakistan and Pakistan needs China.
But at the end, it will be the ability of China to support Pakistan's debt "cost" in the time. And that will also depend on their economical situation. I read somewhere that most Chinese companies have big debt, and per western standard these companies would have been bankrupt long time ago. So we should stay very careful.
And It remind me that we don't know the real contracts signed with them and... knowing our politicians, I have some reservations and concerns about this point.
Anyway, water and debts will be the next starter for world war.

伙计们，记住在政治和地缘政治事务中没有朋友。
因此，我们应该非常小心地对待贷款。但就中国和巴基斯坦而言，我认为我们理解中国需要巴基斯坦，巴基斯坦需要中国。

但最终，中国将有能力支持巴基斯坦的债务“成本”。这也将取决于他们的经济状况。我在某个地方看到，大多数中国公司都有着巨额债务，按照西方标准，这些公司早就应该破产了。所以我们应该小心。

它提醒了我，我们不知道与他们签订的真正的合同内容……大家都了解我们的政界人士，我对这一点有一些保留和担忧。
无论如何，水和债务将是下一次世界大战的导火索。

Kaniska
SENIOR MEMBER美 印
I feel that in case Pakistan, it should be fine. China need Pakistan in equal term as Pakistan need China too...China has dependency on Pakistan which is not related to only economy only....So this will help you to gain some additional cushion with respect to China at the time of negotiation of any deals.

我觉得在巴基斯坦问题上，应该没问题。中国需要巴基斯坦，巴基斯坦也需要中国……中国对巴基斯坦的依赖不仅仅是经济……所以这将帮助你们在与中国进行交易谈判时获得一些额外的缓冲。

Signalian
SENIOR MEMBER
All of Pakistan should be given on lease to China for 25 years, so the desi-corruption and Political system from pre-Mughal upto British era upto now should end forever. 
After 25 years, the old system will be dead, the new generation will lead the country through new policies and system.

整个巴基斯坦都应该租给中国25年，应该永远终结从前莫卧儿到不列颠时代再到如今的腐败政治制度。
25年后，旧制度将不复存在，新一代将通过新的政策和制度领导国家。

gutto786
FULL MEMBER巴 澳
The problem is we are emotional people. May be people on PDF know what Pakistan needs to do. But in reality is Pakistan govt. really acting upon protecting Pakistan's interest. I am not too sure we are protecting our interests. Diplomacy is like chess, chanting deeper than oceans and higher than mountains is OK and good diplomacy but protecting interests when doing contracts is a must must

问题是我们是情绪化的人。也许论坛上的人知道巴基斯坦需要做什么。但实际上是巴基斯坦政府在保护巴基斯坦的利益。我不太确定我们在保护我们的利益。外交就像下棋，歌颂比山高比海深没有问题对外交也有好处，但在签订合同时保护利益是必须的。

protest
FULL MEMBER
So basically Pakistanis can't run their own country right.

所以基本上巴基斯坦人不能正确地管理自己的国家。

Divergent
SENIOR MEMBER英
Debt is modern day slavery.

债务就是现代的奴隶制

shahbaz baig
FULL MEMBER 巴
You should look at history about foreign direct investment of india, china and other nations.

你应该看看外国直接投资印度、中国和其他国家的历史。

protest
FULL MEMBER
How so? India and China gets fdi on their own merit not by renting the whole country to someone else.

所以如何? 印度和中国凭借自身的优势获得外国直接投资，而不是把整个国家租给别人。

Hareeb
FULL MEMBER巴
Reuters? LOL, okay.

路透社的文章？呵呵

mkiyani
FULL MEMBER巴
China Needs to prove them wrong by quickly making "CPEC" operational so that profit earned can be used to lower debt and so on..

中国需要让中巴经济走廊快点运营起来以证明西方是错的，这样就可以利用赚取的利润来降低债务等等。

wiseone2
ELITE MEMBER印 美
nothing stops sri lanka from reneging on the deal and nationalizing hambonta port
it is the oldest trick in the game

没有什么能阻止斯里兰卡违背协议并将汉邦塔港国有化。
这是游戏中最古老的把戏。

Menace2Society
SENIOR MEMBER巴 澳
Yes Pakistan should be US slave again and be used over and over again,stay poor and denuclearize and weak. Beg for money and balkanize to keep India happy. Also accept Indian genocide in Kashmir.
That is what they want you to be. Poor, insignificant and weak. 
Give them 2 middle fingers, do the ICBM test and proxy warfare their as*ses out of Kabul and take all their enemies down with them.
Pakistan has a destiny which transcends the whims of american redneck bharati wet dreams.
There will be a day when they will dread to go even near a neighbor country of Pakistan with no bases of theirs in sight. Hold firm. In the end you will be there and they will break just like Alexander, British Empire, India, Soviet Union.

是的，巴基斯坦应该再次成为美国的奴隶，一次又一次地被利用，保持贫穷、无核化和虚弱。乞讨金钱并巴尔干化来让印度开心。接受印度在克什米尔地区的种族灭绝。

这就是他们希望你成为的样子。贫穷,无关紧要和虚弱。
给他们竖两个中指，进行洲际弹道导弹测试和代理人战争，让他们的傻逼从喀布尔离开，将他们的敌人连同他们一起打倒。

巴基斯坦的命运超越了美国乡巴佬异想天开的春梦。
总有一天他们会害怕一个没有他们基地的巴基斯坦作为他们的邻国。坚持，最终你一定能看到，他们会像亚历山大，大英帝国，印度，苏联一样崩溃。

SoulSpokesman
FULL MEMBER 印
This is a bet Pakistan cant lose. 
What is the worst case scenario? Pak cant repay CPEC debt. What is the recourse? Pak sells its equity stake in Big G and a few other infra projects- , maybe a few thousand acres of barren land surrounding these assets. Big deal. What does Pak gain? Even in the worst case scenario, some world class infra assets.
Win-Win for Pak, if you ask me.

这是巴基斯坦不能输的赌博。
最坏的情况是什么? 巴基斯坦不能偿还中巴经济走廊的债务。代价是什么？出售其在Big G和一些其他基础设施项目的股权，也许是在这些资产周围的几千英亩贫瘠的土地。了不起啊。巴基斯坦能获得什么？即使在最坏的情况下，也能获得某些世界级的基础设施资产。
如果你问我，我会说对巴基斯坦是双赢的。

kasper95
FULL MEMBER 印
Barren land ? Chinese have plenty of it in their own country,what they are after is fertile land

贫瘠的土地？中国人在他们自己的国家有很多，他们所追求的是肥沃的土地。

MrSato1
FULL MEMBER印
I wouldnt use the word barren, most of china is not “barren”, its just not suitable to grow food crops, but normal grasslands, highlands and forest exist, but you can’t grow rice and vegetables in these areas. Not barren just not Suitable for food crops.

我不会用“贫瘠”这个词，中国的大部分地区都不是“贫瘠”的，只不过不适合种植粮食作物，但是普通的草原、高地和森林都存在，只是在这些地区你不能种植水稻和蔬菜。不是贫瘠，只是不适合粮食作物。

AMCA
SENIOR MEMBER 印
I dont think Pakistan is in trouble as long as China continues to grow.

只要中国继续增长我不认为巴基斯坦会陷入麻烦

Solomon2
ELITE MEMBER美
FYI:
"China is increasingly using its large foreign investments as weapons. Case in point is the tactic of loaning poor countries large amounts of money for huge development projects (like ports, roads and railroads). The loans are on terms that look attractive but eventually much be repaid. When the debtor nation runs into trouble making payments China offers to reduce the load in return for control (if not majority ownership) of the ports, railroad, airport or whatever. With control of these facilities China can probably run them more efficiently, and profitably. But control means it is easier for China to use the facility for military or espionage purposes. This is called DTD (Debt Trap Diplomacy) and has been a favorite Chinese tactic for over a thousand years by virtue of China having been, until a few centuries ago, the wealthiest empire on the planet. Nations currently vulnerable (they have large Chinese debts) to DTD are Sri Lanka, Djibouti, Kyrgyzstan, Laos, the Maldives, Mongolia, Montenegro, Pakistan, Venezuela and Tajikistan. Most nations are aware of the DTD trap but where there is a lot of corruption China can create a DTD situation anyway. Some of these DTD efforts go bad and cost China a lot of money, but on average DTD is a net gain for China as it gains military, economic and diplomatic advantages without having to fight."

仅供参考:
中国正越来越多地将其庞大的外资作为武器。这方面的例子就是向贫穷国家提供大量资金用于大型发展项目(如港口、公路和铁路)。这些贷款看起来很有吸引力，但最终要偿还更多。当债务国在付款时遇到麻烦，中国提出减少负担，以换取对港口、铁路、机场或其他地区的控制权(如果不是多数股权)。

通过对这些设施的控制，中国可能会更有效地运营这些设施，并从中获利。但控制意味着中国更容易利用这些设施用于军事或间谍活动。这就是所谓的“债务陷阱外交”， 几千年来，这一直是中国最受喜欢的策略，直到几个世纪前，中国还是这个星球上最富有的帝国。

目前易受债务陷阱外交影响的国家(他们有大量的中国债务)是斯里兰卡、吉布提、吉尔吉斯斯坦、老挝、马尔代夫、蒙古、黑山、巴基斯坦、委内瑞拉和塔吉克斯坦。大多数国家都知道债务陷阱外交骗局，但哪里有大量的腐败问题，中国就可以在哪里进行债务陷阱外交。一些债务陷阱外交的努力变得很糟糕，花费了中国很多钱，但对于中国来说，普遍的债务陷阱外交是纯赚，因为它在无需战斗的情况下获得了军事、经济和外交优势。

Iron Stars
FULL MEMBER 巴
External debts
- We are not in the list of 76 countries with the most external debts !! May be this list is wrong, don't know..
Most of the EU countries are leading & still USA is on the top spot - 1st position..
https://www.gfmag.com/global-dat ... es-around-the-world

外债。我们可不在76个外债最多的国家的名单上!! 可能这个名单是错的，我不知道。
大多数欧盟国家都处于名单领先位置，而美国仍处于第一的位置。

ziaulislam
SENIOR MEMBER 巴 美
Fake news now in reputable Reuters...
It shows a graph where Pakistan debt was zero percent and now around 50% WTF?

假新闻出现在着名的路透社上…
它显示了一个图表，巴基斯坦债务是零，现在大概是50%？什么鬼?

beijingwalker
ELITE MEMBER中
Exactly, China will try her best to make those investments profitable, if Pakistan comes to that point that she could not pay off the debt and the government goes bankrupt, China will be the one to lose the most, not Pakistan.

确切地说，中国将尽最大努力使这些投资有利可图，如果巴基斯坦不能偿还债务，政府破产，中国会成为损失最多的一个，而不是巴基斯坦。

ramu
SENIOR MEMBER
What did China lose in Srilanka port project?

中国在斯里兰卡港口项目中损失了什么?

beijingwalker
ELITE MEMBER中
If China can't make this project work China will lose everything having an empty port, same as India having an empty airport there.

如果中国不能让这个项目运转起来，中国会失去一切只拥有一个空港口，就像印度在那有个空机场一样。

ramu
SENIOR MEMBER
Not true. China has a geo-strategic advantage and free docking rights with no obligation from Srilanka. This is worth more than money invested and a good reason for China to favour a default.

不对。中国在对斯里兰卡没有义务的情况下获得了地缘战略优势和自由停泊权。这比金钱投资更有价值，也是中国支持违约的一个好理由。

ramu
SENIOR MEMBER
Vortex said: ↑
【Guys, remember there is no friend in politics or geopolitics affairs.
So we should stay very carefull with loans. But in the case of China and Pakistan, I think that we understand that China needs Pakistan and Pakistan needs China.】
Let me break that down for you. If Pak defaults on loan payments then China can enforce control with long term lease, long enough to outstrech the lifetimes of children in Pakistsn. Check your CPEC contracts if your politicians are willing to make them public.

“伙计们，记住在政治和地缘政治事务中没有朋友。……”
让我给你解释一下。如果巴基斯坦拖欠贷款，中国就可以通过长期租赁来实施控制，这一期限长到巴基斯坦的孩子们的一生。如果你们的政客愿意让合同公开，你可以检查你们的中巴经济走廊合同。

PAKISTANFOREVER
SENIOR MEMBER 英 巴
So now all of a sudden a person who is a member of the race that calls for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation is all of a sudden concerned about Pakistan's economy and it's ability to pay off a loan???????????......
.......have I missed something here?......

突然之间，一个呼吁摧毁巴基斯坦种族和国家的种族成员突然开始担心巴基斯坦的经济和偿还贷款的能力???????????
……我是不是错过了什么？……

Vortex
FULL MEMBER
Thank you very much to quoting me. But please read my whole comment not just part of it.
Maybe due to your seniority your eyesight is weaken, so let me remind you what i wrote :
1) i said we should very carefull about debt trap. Because the risk and the stacks are high. This is the thesis.
2) yes i downplayed the debt trap in the case of Pakistan and China's relationship because of strategics reasons. This is the antithesis.
3) finally i said that will depends on the ability of China to support the debt of Pakistan. If their economy is strong enough then they could reschuddle the debt on soft terms, as it is a win win for both parties. But the outcmes could be totally different if china's economy is going down... And then i talked about the terms of contracts signed by both governments which are kept secret. This is the synthesis.
So i i really don't see the value of your reply. 

非常感谢你引用我的话。但请阅读我的全部评论，而不是只看一部分。
也许是由于你的资历，你的眼力很差，所以让我来提醒你我写的:
1. 我说过我们应该要小心债务陷阱。因为风险和筹码都很高。这是论点。
2. 是的，由于战略原因，我淡化了巴基斯坦和中国关系中的债务陷阱。这是对照。

3. 最后，我说，这将取决于中国支持巴基斯坦债务的能力。如果他们的经济足够强大，他们就可以用软条款来重新安排债务，因为这对双方来说都是双赢。但如果中国经济下滑，结果可能完全不同……然后我谈到了两国政府签署的保密协议条款。这是综合。
所以我真的看不出你的回复的价值。

liall
FULL MEMBER 印 加
Where is your sovereignty if you give away whole country - Pakistan to someone else?
Divergent said: ↑
【Debt is modern day slavery.】
Not if you manage it properly. Debt can be both good and bad.

如果你把整个国家——巴基斯坦交给别人，你的主权在哪里?

“债务是现代的奴隶制。”
不，如果你能妥善处理的话。债务可以是好的，也可以是坏的。

Divergent
SENIOR MEMBER
We’re talking unmanageable debt.

我们谈论的是处理不了的债务。

beijingwalker
ELITE MEMBER中
Pakistan borrows $500 million from China to shore up its reserves
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...hore-up-its-reserves/articleshow/62958598.cms
Pakistan in talks with China to borrow $1b
https://tribune.com.pk/story/165 ... ks-china-borrow-1b/
Just like what we did in the 80's and 90's from Japan when we were developing our economy. We borrowed so much loans from Japan during those years.

巴基斯坦从中国借了5亿美元来充实其储备。
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...hore-up-its-reserves/articleshow/62958598.cms
巴基斯坦正在与中国谈判，借10亿美元。
https://tribune.com.pk/story/165 ... ks-china-borrow-1b/
就像我们在80-90年代发展经济时从日本借一样。在那些年里，我们从日本借了那么多贷款。

Chaosmaster
FULL MEMBER印
beijingwalker said: ↑
【If China can't make this project work China will lose everything having an empty port, same as India having an empty airport there.】
There are certain countries where China's countries strategic interests are more important than monetary profits. Those locations are Venezuela, Pakistan and sri lanka. 
Do you think that when china gave loans to Venezuela they had repayment in mind? Even when Venezuela was in a stage of financial breakdown china kept on providing loans. China was seeing at losses but they had their eye on their oil. So when Venezuela couldn't pay them in money, china demanded oil instead at discounted rate. 
In case of sri Lankan hambantota port, why did china invest in there when there is a perfectly capable, well capable and established Colombo port a few NM away? Did they really think that traffic would start coming there? No they didn't, Chinese aren't fools to think so. Again their strategic interest of getting a port (which possibly get converted to a naval base In future) close to India prevailed. And when sri lanka couldn't pay back, they achieved their objective. Yes, sri lanka refused to allow them to use a military base but still they can use it observe and gather intelligence. 
I ask you what China did to make this project profitable? India is not there to make money, our objective was clear, its to keep an eye on china's port. 
Similarly in the case of Pakistan, there is Karachi port nearby and its used extensively, generates a lot of business. Why Gwadar then? Because its located at the mouth of Gulf of Oman and china imports a major share of their oil from there. Today if china's oil reaches them going through the indian ocean and reaches SCS through the strait of Malacca, after Gwadar its all gonna through that port and directly to mainland china bypassing indian ocean. Its a win win for china. If the port generates revenue, china makes money and still gets to import oil from oil, if it doesn't china still gets to import oil. China doesn't has anything to loose in Gwadar, they just want a safer route for their oil which they are getting. But ask yourself what if it doesn't make money? How do you repay the staggering amount?

在某些国家中，中国的战略利益比货币利润更重要。这些地点分别是委内瑞拉、巴基斯坦和斯里兰卡。
你认为当中国向委内瑞拉提供贷款时，他们会考虑还款吗? 即使在委内瑞拉处于金融崩溃的阶段，中国仍继续提供贷款。中国看到了损失，但他们关注的是石油。因此，当委内瑞拉无法用货币支付时，中国就要求以折扣价购买石油。

就斯里兰卡的汉班托塔港而言，为什么中国在一个拥有完善、良好能力并且已经建立了的科伦坡港几海里的地方投资呢？他们真的认为交通运输会开始出现在那吗? 不，中国人不是傻瓜不会这么认为。再说一次，他们的战略利益是获得一个港口(在未来可能被转换为海军基地) 来接近印度。当斯里兰卡无法偿还债务时，他们实现了自己的目标。是的，斯里兰卡拒绝允许他们当成军事基地，但他们仍然可以使用它观察和收集情报。

我问你，中国做了什么让这个项目有利可图? 印度不是为了赚钱，我们的目标是明确的，就是为了关注中国的港口。

同样的，就巴基斯坦而言，靠近卡拉奇港，被广泛的使用，引来了很多生意。那瓜达尔港是为了什么? 因为它位于阿曼湾口，中国从那里进口大量石油。中国的石油穿过印度洋穿过马六甲海峡到达南中国海，在拥有瓜达尔之后，它将通过这个港口，越过印度洋直接到达中国大陆。

这是中国的双赢。如果该港口产生收入，中国就能赚钱，而且还能进口石油，如果不能赚钱，中国仍旧可以获得进口石油。中国并没有在瓜达尔损失任何东西，他们只是想要一条更安全的途径来获取石油，现在这条途径他们已经获得了。但是问问你自己，如果它不赚钱怎么办? 你如何偿还数额惊人的金钱?

RoadRunner401
FULL MEMBER 巴 加
Yes, we get it, any Chinese investment in Pakistan is bad for Pakistan, other world leaders visiting China for more trade and investment is good for rest of the world, now kindly take your retarded opinion bend over and shove it up your azz.

是的，我们知道了，任何中国在巴基斯坦的投资都对巴基斯坦不利，其他国家的领导人访问中国进行更多的贸易和投资，这对世界是有益的，现在，我诚恳的请你弯腰把你弱智的观点塞进你的PP。

Lil Mathew
FULL MEMBER 印
Investment & loan is different...

投资和贷款是不同的…

RoadRunner401
FULL MEMBER 巴 加
Oh, really!!!!!!!!!! Everybody is a bloody expert on financing when it comes to Chinese investments and loans to Pakistan.
Infrastructure builds with borrowed Money will yield 1000s of jobs and billions in payback over the long-term, only two states jumping up and down and telling us how bad these deals are; Indians and Americans, not exactly hard to do the math and see what the actual problem is.

哦,真的？! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! 在谈到中国对巴基斯坦的投资和贷款方面，每个人都是金融方面的专家。
用借来的钱建造的基础设施将带来1000多的工作机会和数十亿美元的长期回报，只有两个国家上蹿下跳，告诉我们这些交易有多糟糕; 印度人和美国人，不难计算和看出实际问题是什么。

ziaulislam
SENIOR MEMBER 巴 美
i see no problem even if govt goes to IMF which it would probably not in wake of recovery in last 6 months in exports
but challenges are repayment to IMF
most of Chinese investment is BOT, meaning in 30 years you will get every project free of cost including most of hydro projects
its probably not ideal and has huge returns but better than no investment
there are only two major loan projects
1. railway massive upgrade projects of whole railway infrastructure to increase speed from 80 km to 160km costing 12 billion dollars
2. karachi two nuclear pwoer plants 9 billion dollars 
but thats it none of articles that i have seen have discussed particulars or said anything specific apart from usually"at risk " shit. well every third would country is at risk

我认为，即使政府向国际货币基金组织求助，也没有什么问题，在过去6个月的出口复苏中，政府可能不会这么做，但挑战是向国际货币基金组织偿还债务。

中国的大部分投资都是建设-经营-转让（BOT），这意味着在30年内，你可以免费获得每个项目，包括大部分水电项目。
它可能并不理想，要还很多钱，但总比没有投资要好。

这有两个主要的贷款项目：
1. 铁路大规模升级铁路基础设施项目，从80公里增加到160公里，耗资120亿美元。
2. 卡拉奇两个核电站，耗资90亿美元。
但我看到的任何一篇文章都没有讨论过细节，也没有说过任何具体的东西，除了说“有风险”的垃圾。好吧，每个第三世界国家都处于危险之中。

ramu
SENIOR MEMBER
I wrote:
Debt as a % of GDP has doubled every 7 years since 1990. My bad.
Intent was to write debt and not debt to GDP ratio but increase in absolute external debt in $s. And it has not doubled every 7 years but increased 5 times in 28 years.
Look at the external debt in 2010. Then compare with debt in 2017 (include CPEC loans as debt).
The only time this did not happen was under Musharraf and I give you that.
Pakistan’s external debt was $21.9 billion in 1990.
It was $35.6 billion in 2000.
Pakistan’s foreign debt and liabilities in July 2013 stood at USD 61.9 billion
In July 2014, Pakistan’s foreign debt soared to USD 63.4 billion, showing an increase of USD 1.5 billion.
In July 2015, the foreign debt rose to USD 65.1 billion recording an increase of USD 1.7 billion.
It rose to 85 billion in Dec 2017. This does not include CPEC debt that is 40 billion atleast. Add this and the debt is 125 billion.
From 21B to 125B is a 5 fold increase.
https://tribune.com.pk/story/158 ... -increase-12-3-85b/

我之前写的：
自1990以来，债务占GDP的百分比，每7年翻一番。是我的错。
我是想写债务，而不是债务占GDP的比率，它并没有每7年翻一番，而是在28年内增加了5倍。

看看2010年的外债。然后比较2017年的债务(包括中巴经济走廊贷款作为债务)
唯一一次没有发生是在穆沙拉夫的领导下，这是我给你们的：
1990年巴基斯坦的外债为219亿美元。
2000年为356亿美元。
2013年7月的外债和负债为619亿美元。
2014年7月，巴基斯坦外债猛增至634亿美元，增长15亿美元。
2015年7月，外债增加到651亿美元，增长了17亿美元。
2017年12月，这个数字上升到850亿。这还不包括至少400亿美元的中巴经济走廊债务。加上这个，债务是1250亿。
从210亿到1250亿增加了5倍。
https://tribune.com.pk/story/158 ... -increase-12-3-85b/

shahbaz baig
FULL MEMBER 巴
Pakistan should be able to pay all debts to save her sovereignty.. Otherwise other countries will not join one belt one road initiative by china. And whole word will laugh not only on china but on pakistan too.. Basically you are promoting indian narrative.. so kindly stop doing this.

巴基斯坦能够偿还所有的债务来保住她的主权。否则，其他国家就不会加入一带一路倡议。整个世界不仅会笑中国，也会笑巴基斯坦。基本上你是在宣传印度的故事。所以请不要再这样做了。

Kaniska
SENIOR MEMBER 美 印
shahbaz baig said: ↑
【Pakistan should be able to pay all debts to save her sovereignty.. Otherwise other countries will not join one belt one road initiative by china. And whole word will laugh not only on china but on pakistan too.. Basically you are promoting indian narrative.. so kindly stop doing this.】
Do not get emotional with what @Kaptaan has mentioned...His statements are very rational. In order to pay with the loan amount that has been incurred by Pakistan, your society has to really allign with the way China and their people work...Pakistan has to allign with the interest of China both politically and to some extent culturally too... Influence of China will definitely influence the conservative society and Politicization of Islam in Pakistan to the way, it would like to see Pakistan to be..

不要因为@Kaptaan所提到的东西而情绪化…... 他的陈述很理性。为了支付巴基斯坦的贷款金额，你们的社会必须真正与中国和他们的人民的工作方式保持一致……巴基斯坦也必须在政治上和文化上都与中国的利益保持一致。中国的影响力肯定会影响到巴基斯坦保守的社会和伊斯兰教的政治化的方式，它希望看到巴基斯坦成为……

shahbaz baig
FULL MEMBER 巴
And we dont buy indian false and propagated narrative.
I personaly appericate some extent of chinese political version where death penalty is must for corrupts if there are proofs. 

我们不相信印度虚假宣传的故事。
我个人某种程度上很欣赏中国的政治说法，即如果有证据，就必须对腐败者处以死刑。

fitpOsitive
FULL MEMBER 巴 德
Well guys here is the point to be noted: the banks who are financing infrastructure within China are also financing CPEC. Capatalists behind the Chinese banks are the same as IMF or central reserve or may be Goldman Sachs etc. Its not China, its the same old Banker thugs. China wouldn't be able to save Pakistan, even if she wants to, as China also owes trillions to these bankers. 

值得注意的一点:在中国融资基础设施的银行也在为中巴经济走廊融资。中国银行背后的资本主义者与国际货币基金组织或中央储备银行或高盛等是一样的。不是中国，是老银行家恶棍。即使中国愿意，也无法拯救巴基斯坦，因为中国也欠这些银行家数万亿美元。

ramu
SENIOR MEMBER 巴
The majority — $35 billion — of CPEC investments is for power plants. The agreements for what Pakistan will pay for each plant are surprisingly transparent and are posted on the website for the National Electric Power Regulatory Authority. The CPEC website lists projects, costs and progress.
The energy projects are treated as investments by Chinese companies, but they are actually loans plus fixed returns to equity. Once constructed, Pakistan will buy what the plants produce at the 8.50 rupee rate. The rate pays back the loan that the Chinese company took from a Chinese bank to build the plant; a commercial 5 percent interest rate; a one-time payment equal to 7 percent of the cost of the project as insurance against default (even though Pakistan has offered sovereign guarantees); and a 15 to 20 percent return on equity. The rate of return is high but standard across similar projects that fall under the country’s policy for independent power producers.

中巴经济走廊投资的350亿美元主要用于发电厂。巴基斯坦为每一个工厂支付的费用惊人的透明，并被公布在国家电力监管局的网站上。中巴经济走廊网站列出了项目、成本和进展。

这些能源项目被视为中国企业的投资，但实际上它们是贷款加上固定资产回报。一旦建成，巴基斯坦将以8.50卢比的价格购买这些工厂生产的产品。这个利率偿还了这家中国公司从一家中国银行获得的建造工厂的贷款。5%的商业利率; 一次性支付相当于项目成本的7%作为违约保险(尽管巴基斯坦提供了主权担保); 还有15%到20%的股本回报率。回报率很高，但类似项目的标准低于国家独立发电政策。

volatile
SENIOR MEMBER
Thank you very much for making it clear for every one Im glad you have done such a hard work ,Now I will explain each and every point of your argument 
CPEC all investments are backed by Chinese EXIM and Central Bank of China at interest rate of 1 or less then 1% in some cases 0% .Now coming to the point of sovereign guarantee its true and pay back are also the same but these all decisions are based on 2013 and in 2013 our credit rating was no where infact what Chinese investment or AKA Loan has done is revamping all the infrastructure for Pakistan which was 19th century Thanks to India who never pay equal share of wealth after 1947 and Now Indians are concerned over projects being done .Its funny in 1993 Indians were selling there gold to bail out economy what happened after that is the real miracle of Inflated GDP thru FDI as all nations start pouring FDI in India making India or at least trying to make India CHina ,On the other hand Pakistanis are ok with Chinese infact we are more than happy that some one will be governing the issues other than US you forget that we have around 4 -5 Thousand MW of industry shut down ,Chinese are buying them and making them active again the projected GDP growth rate is expected to remain above 6% for next 5-7 years so by the law of economics of 35 that is 7 years doubling the GDP with FDI pouring in from China in Heavy industries as well in other segments ,China needs Pakistan prosper not as take over state as the clear challenge in this region,by the way i didnt see Sri Lankans shouting foul when it comes to port handling other than India ,Cheers

非常感谢你为每一个人都解释清楚，我很高兴你做了如此艰苦的工作，现在我将解释你评论中的每一个要点。

中巴经济走廊的所有投资由中国进出口银行和中国中央银行支持，利率1%或低于1%，某些情况下0%。现在说主权担保，它的真实的，回报也是如此。但所有这些决定都是基于2013年，我们2013的信用评级是没有的，而事实上，中国的投资或“所谓的贷款”已经完成了对巴基斯坦那些十九世纪基础设施的改造。

由于印度在1947年之后从未对基础设施支付过同等的财富，现在印度人对巴基斯坦正在进行的项目感到担忧。有趣的是，1993年印度人出售他们黄金，以拯救经济。那之后发生的是GDP膨胀的奇迹，当所有国家的外国直接投资涌入印度，使或者试图使印度成为中国。

另一方面，巴基斯坦人对中国人很好。事实上，我们非常高兴的是，除了美国之外，还会有一个国家来管理这些问题。你忘记了我们有大约4 - 5000 MW的工业被关闭了，中国人正在购买它们并使它们重新活跃起来。预计未来5-7年的GDP增长率将保持在6%以上。

因此，根据35年来的经济学规律，随着中国的直接投资涌入重工业和其他行业，GDP7年翻了一番。中国需要巴基斯坦的繁荣，而不是接管国家作为这一地区的明确挑战。顺便说一句，我没有看斯里兰卡人在处理港口问题是大喊犯规，除了印度。