#贸易战# 中美贸易谈判陷入僵局，但 “仍有前进的空间” [联合国媒体]

China-US trade talks hit dead end but ‘there’s still room to move’

中美贸易谈判陷入僵局，但 “仍有前进的空间”

 

US machinery giant Caterpillar could be subject to tighter Chinese security and environmental reviews if China hits back at US tariffs, former commerce vice-minister Wei Jianguo says. Photo: Reuters

前商务部副部长魏建国表示，如果中国回击美国关税，美国机械巨头卡特彼勒可能会受到中国更严格的安全和环境审查。图片：路透社。

No sign of dialogue between the two economic powerhouses as Beijing chafes at Washington’s expectations of compromise

两个经济大国之间没有对话的迹象，因为北京方面对华盛顿做出妥协的预期感到愤慨。

China and the United States have hit a dead end in trade talks, with dialogue between the world’s two biggest economies cut since Washington ramped up threats.
Former Chinese officials and observers said the suspension of talks – revealed by the Chinese Ministry of Commerce late on Friday – reflected China’s frustration with its “difficult” negotiating position and its desire for Washington to scale down its expectations of compromise from Beijing.
Some observers also said that if Washington did go ahead with threatened tariffs on an additional US$100 billion in Chinese goods, Beijing might go one step further and target US companies in China.

中美贸易谈判陷入僵局，自华盛顿加大威胁以来，世界上最大的两个经济体之间的对话中断。
前中国官员和观察人士表示，中国商务部上周五晚些时候披露谈判暂停，反映出中国对其“艰难”谈判立场的失望，以及它希望华盛顿降低、妥协的期望。
一些观察人士还表示，如果华盛顿真的对另外1000亿美元的中国商品征收威胁关税，北京方面可能会更进一步，把矛头对准在中国的美国公司。

US politicians break ranks over Donald Trump’s ‘nuts’ trade moves against China
US officials had said that both sides were trying to resolve the dispute but Commerce Ministry spokesman Gao Feng rejected suggestions that there were any talks, adding that such discussions had not taken place “for a period of time”. 
He ruled out the possibility of “any kind of negotiations under current circumstances”, taking a tougher line than Beijing’s earlier position that it was always willing to engage in talks to resolve the issue.
Gao also said China had drafted “detailed countermeasures” to hit back at the US and no options would be excluded.

美国政界人士在唐纳德·特朗普针对中国的“疯狂”贸易举措上分道扬镳。
美国官员曾表示，双方都在努力解决这一争端，但商务部发言人高峰（音）否认了有关任何谈判的说法，并补充称，此类讨论“在一段时间内”没有进行。
他排除了“在当前情况下进行任何形式的谈判”的可能性，并采取了比北京方面（即它始终愿意参与谈判以解决这一问题）更强硬的立场。
高还表示，中国已经起草了“详细的反措施”来回击美国，不会排除任何选择。

The last publicly reported trade talks between US and Chinese officials were on March 24, when Vice-Premier Liu He told US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin in a phone call that China would defend its interests. That conversation followed Liu’s trip to Washington, where he was given the cold shoulder.
White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said on late Friday that there were “back-channel discussions” with China and Trump might give China a list of suggestions “as to what we would like to have come out of this”. He gave no details of the discussions.
Chinese analysts said China still saw dialogue as the way forward, but the US was demanding too much and unfairly penalising China by exempting several countries from the tariffs.
“The US has always set China’s concession as the goal for negotiations. But this is not negotiation,” former commerce vice-minister Wei Jianguo said. “It is condescending and domineering.”

上一次公开报道美中官员之间的贸易谈判是在3月24日，当时刘鹤副总理在电话中告诉美国财政部长史蒂文·姆钦，中国将捍卫自己的利益。在那次谈话之前，刘翔去了华盛顿，在那里他受到了冷遇。
白宫经济顾问拉里·库德洛上周五晚些时候表示，目前正在与中国进行“幕后讨论”，特朗普可能会向中国提出“关于我们希望从这件事中得到什么”等一系列建议，他没有提供讨论的细节。
中国分析人士表示，中国仍将对话视为前进的方向，但美国对几个国家免征关税的要求过高，并对中国进行了不公平的惩罚。
“美国一直把中国的让步作为谈判的目标，但这不是谈判，“ 前商务部副部长魏建国说，“这是一种高人一等、专横霸道的行为。”

Wei said the possibility of a trade war spilling over into a financial war or affecting US companies operating in China could not be ruled out.
“China has too many points of attack to choose from,” he said, saying semiconductor firm Qualcomm and machinery giant Caterpillar could be subject to tighter national security and environmental reviews.
But some Chinese analysts were not impressed with the ministry’s rhetoric. 
“I don’t agree with saying that no negotiations can be staged under the current circumstances,” Renmin University international relations professor Shi Yinhong said.
“We should vow strong retaliation but we should still express our willingness to sit down at the negotiation table, to leave leeway for reconciliation. If both sides continue behaving like this, then an all-out trade war will loom.”

魏说，不能排除贸易战演变成金融战或影响在华经营的美国公司的可能性。
“中国有太多的攻击点可供选择，”他说，半导体公司高通(Qualcomm)和机械巨头卡特彼勒可能会受到更严格的国家安全和环境审查。
但一些中国分析人士对这位部长的言论不以为然。
“我不同意在目前的情况下不能进行谈判，”中国人民大学国际关系学教授时殷弘说，
“我们应该誓言进行强烈报复，但我们仍应表示愿意坐到谈判桌前，为和解留出余地，如果双方继续这样做，一场全面贸易战就会迫在眉睫。“

Tariffs on an initial US$50 billion in Chinese goods are not expected to come into effect until June, after a public comment period. And China has not announced the effective date of its retaliatory measures proposed on Wednesday, leaving room for negotiation. 
Shi said that if Chinese and US officials did not communicate before that deadline “it will be a historic diplomatic failure”.
Pang Zhongying, distinguished professor of global studies at Ocean University of China, said there was little trust between China and the US.
“China is not clear whether the US really wants negotiations,” Pang said. “China is fully aware that the situation is grave and escalating. It has repeatedly expressed its intention for dialogue, but to no avail.”

对价值500亿美元的中国商品征收的初始关税预计要到6月份才能生效，此前需要经过一段时间的公开评论。中国还没有宣布周三提出的报复措施的生效日期，这留下了谈判的空间。
时殷弘说，如果中美官员不能在最后期限前进行沟通，“这将是一个历史性的外交失败”。
中国海洋大学着名的全球研究教授庞中英表示，中美之间几乎没有信任。
庞表示：“中国不清楚美国是否真的希望谈判。”他说：“中国充分认识到局势不断升级的严重性，中国一再表示打算进行对话，但都没有结果。“

Wei said Gao’s comments did not suggest that China refused to engage in future talks.
“The current atmosphere is not for negotiations but the gate to future negotiations has not been shut. We still welcome talks but it has to be done in a good atmosphere, where both sides are equal and with sincerity to solve the issue,” he said.
Huo Jianguo, senior research fellow at the Centre for China and Globalisation and former director of a research institute under the ministry, said the US should not expect too big a compromise from China.
“There must be time for both sides to sit down for a talk before June,” he said.

魏建国说，商务部发言人高峰的评论并不意味着中国拒绝参与未来的会谈。
“目前的气氛不是为了谈判，未来谈判的大门并没有关闭，我们仍然欢迎会谈，但会谈必须在一个良好的气氛中进行，双方都是平等的，都有诚意解决这个问题。”
中国与全球化中心高级研究员、商务部下属一家研究所前所长霍建国(音译)表示，美国不应指望中国做出太大妥协。
他说：“在六月之前，双方必须抽出时间坐下来进行会谈。”



dstech808
1 hour 32 min ago
Can we all watch rugby sevens and forget politics for a while ? Let the game begin and bring peace !

我们都能看一段时间的橄榄球，暂时忘掉政治吗？让游戏开始，带来和平！

derrek9318@******
1 hour 50 min ago
In this global arena, it is only China will have the guts to do tits for tats with US without incurring any military action, as both sides are fully aware that any escalation of military action would usually cause much further damages. It'd not be too distant in future, one party will start the negotiation and get it right. I will say that in such accord, WTO is certainly losing its value in containing the trade regulation, and nations all over the world will come to realise that all the funds that were supporting the good cause of WTO will be irrelevant. Players will start doing and setting bi-lateral trades and dealings that bind its interest. If WTO, knowing that US is violating trade regulation, yet maintain its double standard approach without taking harsh actions, the global economic players will shift their paradigm elsewhere and soon withdraw from WTO. This trade tariff set upon by Trump is good for China to see whom are their best allies to join hands to protest against US. Though many western leaders set harsh tone against US for imposing tariffs, they are not willing to join hands with China to go hard on their main ally. In saying that, these western leaders are merely providing lip services and in their bone marrow, the Chinese rise and dominance are indeed a threat to their democracy value. China needs to stay strong and diversified their partnership as the cakes would be better in under developed nations that are more appreciative of its contribution.

在这个全球舞台上，只有中国才有胆量在不引发任何军事行动的情况下，与美国针锋相对，因为双方都充分意识到，军事行动的升级通常会造成更大的损害。和解不会太遥远，在未来，一方将开始谈判，并把它做好。我要说的是，如果这样达成协议，世贸组织在贸易规则方面肯定失去了它的价值，世界各国都会意识到，支持世贸组织这一良好事业的所有资金都将是无关紧要的。参与者将开始自主设定双边交易，约束其利益.。如果WTO知道美国违反了贸易规则，但又不采取严厉的行动，保持其双重标准的做法，全球经济参与者将改变他们的范式，很快退出世贸组织。特朗普制定的贸易关税有利于中国看到谁是他们最好的盟友，可以联手抗议美国。尽管许多西方领导人对美国征收关税发出了严厉的批评，但他们不愿与中国联手严厉打击他们的主要盟友，说到这一点，西方领导人只是口惠而实不至，在骨子里还是认为中国的崛起和统治地位是对他们民主价值的威胁。中国需要保持强劲和多元化的伙伴关系，因为在发达国家，这块蛋糕会更好，更欣赏它的贡献。

Elial
2 hours 19 min ago
Trump’s Art of the Deal style of “negotiation” is basically to be irrational and intimidating so that the other side caves in. I suspect this is unlikely to work with China.

特朗普交易式风格的“谈判”基本上是非理性的和恐吓性的，以使对方就会屈服，我怀疑这不太可能对中国起作用。

Elial
2 hours 21 min ago
Globalisation and unrestrained growth has gotten a bit out of hand, so scaling back and becoming more local will be good for both the US and China.

全球化和不受限制的增长已经失去了控制，因此缩减规模和变得更加本地化对美国和中国都是有利的。

johnyu692030
2 hours 52 min ago
The majority US people will be happy to see that China shut down all US companies in China, and, stop importing any US goods and services, depend only on its own crappy China products ! US will soon make China irrelevant to its economy.

大多数美国人会高兴地看到中国关闭所有在中国的美国公司，停止进口任何美国商品和服务，只依靠自己憋足的中国产品！美国将很快使中国与其（美国）经济毫不无关。

indianchief
41 min 5 sec ago
Obviously it is either you don’t know the truth or not telling the truth.
​
很明显，要么你不知道真相，要么不说实话。

Elial
9 min 12 sec ago
The majority of “US people” voted for Trump. The rest who voted, voted for Hillary Clinton. That should give you a good idea of the majority of US people”, and the choices put before them.

大多数“美国人”投票支持特朗普，但其余投了票的人都投了希拉里·克林顿的票，这应该会让你对“大多数美国人”有一个更好的了解，以及摆在他们面前的选择。

tv@2
2 hours 16 min ago
This is what a typical Western thinks. They have no idea of how economics work. US unemployment is about 4% which is about full employment and America still needs to borrow trillions of $$$ to keep her govt running. She has been subsidize by the world. Her population is getting poorer each year. Without subsidies from the world, America needs to export just like Europe to keep growing. Guess which country has the largest middle class in the world? China and its middle class is growing every year. It means America needs China to keep growing. Do you know any thing about endogenous growth? China has 4times the human capital than America. China's economy could be 4 times larger than America is right now. China needs to take out the waste/friction in its economy system at the moment and it is working to correct it. With a top down govt, China can accomplish in no time. The only problem I see is the Red Queen. If China becomes complacent and friction increases instead of going down, this form of govt is very hard to change. If this happens China will lose the mandate of heaven may become the sick man of Asia again.

这是典型的西方人的想法。他们不知道经济是如何运作的。美国的失业率约为4%，这与充分就业有关，美国仍需要借入数万亿美元来维持政府运转，她得到了全世界的资助，她的人口一年比一年穷。如果没有世界各国的补贴，美国需要像欧洲一样出口，才能保持增长。猜猜哪个国家有世界上最大的中产阶级？中国及其中产阶级每年都在增长，这意味着美国需要中国保持增长，你对内增长有什么了解吗？中国的人力资本是美国的四倍，中国的经济规模可能是美国现在的4倍，目前，中国需要消除其经济体系中的浪费/摩擦，它正在努力纠正这一问题，有了一个自上而下的政府，中国就能立于不败之地，我看到的唯一问题是红皇后（注：Red Queen，这里没明白是什么意思。。抱歉），如果中国变得自满，摩擦增加而不是下降，这种形式的政府是很难改变的，如果这种情况发生，中国将失去天命，可能再次成为亚洲的病夫。

luckychinaleaf@******
2 hours 46 min ago
China and the U.S. should be natural trade partners for mutual benefit.
However, the Americans have been volunteering overconsumption of cheap goods from China to the point of addiction. The Americans will continue to demand for cheap goods, if not from China, it must be from elsewhere, such as India, Mexico and Vietnam. Therefore, don’t blame China for trade deficit, blame outsourcing. The US can stop outsourcing tomorrow and the trade deficit will go to ZERO!
China has no obligation to open its market 100%. The US can stop trading with China tomorrow and give all the businesses to India. Trade war is just too much dramas.
Technology transfer is necessary for outsourcing. How can you tell poor and uneducated Indian people to get the jobs done without basic technology transfers?
Intellectual property is not that easy to steal. Can anyone steal somebody’s else walking skills? You have to learn how to walk for your own good. China is a fast learner, India is a slower one.
This trade war will make both countries less dependent on each other in the near future. As a matter of fact, both have been working toward that goal since the 1990s. It is not the end of the world.

中美应该成为互利的天然贸易伙伴。
然而，美国人自愿过度消费来自中国的廉价商品，以至于上瘾。美国人将继续对廉价商品需求，如果不是来自中国，那一定是来自其他地方，比如印度、墨西哥和越南。因此，不要将贸易逆差归咎于中国，而应归咎于外包，美国明天就可以停止外包，贸易赤字将降至零！
中国没有义务百分之百地开放市场，美国明天就可以停止与中国的贸易，把所有的生意都交给印度，贸易战实在是太戏剧化了。
技术转让是外包的必要条件，你怎么能告诉贫穷和未受过教育的印度人在没有基本技术转让的情况下完成工作呢？
知识产权不是那么容易被窃取的，有人能偷别人的行走技术吗？你必须学会为了自己的利益而行走，中国学得快，印度学得慢。
这场贸易战将使两国在不久的将来减少相互依赖。事实上，自上世纪90年代以来，两国都在朝着这一目标努力。这不是世界末日。

johnyu692030
2 hours 22 min ago
US will not do business with thief.

美国不会和小偷做生意。

johnyu692030
3 hours 39 min ago
You have shown China people like you knows nothing about morality ! Even thief behavior can be praised in China, What a crap.

你向中国人民表明，你对道德一无所知！在中国，甚至小偷的行为也有值得称赞的地方，真是一派胡言。

EagleDragon2017@******
4 hours 24 min ago
50% tariffs on Sands, Wynn and MGM in Macao. These casinos are corrupting.

澳门金沙、永利和米高梅的税率为50%。这些赌场是腐败。

eddielim538@******
4 hours 28 min ago
China should adopt tat-for-tit. Hit now, cancel the licences of USA firms, do Trump a favor. However, who will hire the millions that may be jobless in China? Who will pay for the mortgages...property prices are now way beyond the capacity of the Chinese to finance. Who will pay for the food and necessities. And will Chinese lenders take back the defaulted apartments?
- Too many unknowns. Many simply assume a tit-for-tat will teach USA a lesson. It may be China who will learn a bitter lessons. Trade = Jobs = Wages = Lifelihood

中国应该采取针锋相对的方式，现在就打，取消美国公司的执照，帮特朗普个忙。然而，谁来雇佣中国可能失业的数百万人呢？由谁来支付抵押贷款...房地产价格现在已经超出了中国人的融资能力，谁来支付食品和必需品，中国的银行会收回违约的公寓吗？
——有太多的未知数，许多人只是认为针锋相对会给美国一个教训，但可能是中国从中吸取惨痛的教训。
贸易=工作=工资=生活

luckychinaleaf@******
4 hours 9 min ago
China’s economy is 5 times bigger compare to India.
China’s per capital income is 3 times bigger compare to India.
China is many times richer compare to India. China has 500 billionaires vs 100 billionaires of India. Chinese tourists spend over $300 billions overseas annually, $40 billions spent in the US in 2007, definitely not a small sum.
India is doing ok, so does China.
There is a possibility of a trade war spilling over into a financial war or affecting US companies operating in China could not be ruled out.
Semiconductor firm Qualcomm and machinery giant Caterpillar could be subject to tighter “national security and environmental reviews”.

中国的经济规模是印度的5倍。
中国的人均收入是印度的3倍。
中国比印度富裕很多倍。中国有500位亿万富翁，而印度有100位亿万富翁。中国游客每年在海外消费超过3，000亿美元，2007年间在美国消费400亿美元，绝对不是一个小数目。
印度做得不错，中国也是。
引用：
“
不排除贸易战蔓延到金融战或影响在华经营的美国公司的可能性。
半导体公司高通和机械巨头卡特彼勒可能会受到更严格的“国家安全和环境审查”。
”

clive.stepanek@******
4 hours 29 min ago
China’s modus operandi generally is to undertake to do something or make a promise and then not deliver for over a decade. Then at some point after the 10 year mark, they will agree to finally make good on their promise and dress it up as a concession when all they are doing is what they said they would do many years ago. WTO accession promises are a good example of this.
This current set of negotiations has the CCP well out of their comfort zone and its very amusing to watch.
If they go after US companies operating in China then this will not end well for China on so many fronts.

中国的做法通常是承诺做某事或许下承诺，然后在十多年内不兑现承诺。在10年后的某一时刻，他们会同意最终兑现承诺，并将其装扮成让步，而他们所做的一切都是他们多年前所说的,加入世贸组织的承诺就是一个很好的例子。
这一系列的谈判让中共走出了他们的安乐窝，这是一件非常有趣的事情。
如果他们把矛头对准在华经营的美国公司，那么中国在这么多方面都不会有好结果。

luckychinaleaf@******
3 hours 55 min ago
The Americans couldn’t stop buying cheap products from Walmart stores. Greed is inherently embedded in the spirit of capitalism.
China has special economic zones. China has never a free market economy for thousands of years.
The only time that China had a totally free market economy was right after the opium wars. Obviously, It didn’t work out good for China.
China plays by the rules accordingly. The rules were created by the West, China had Zero input whatsoever, even China's car industry has been overwhelmed by the West for decades.
India has been playing by the rules. However, It’s economy is 1/5 of China.
The nature of capitalism is very greedy. Most western countries used to the idea ‘let’s the Chinese work like dogs to produce cheap products for our high standard of living societies. We will keep them stupid forever and so their next generations will continue to be our economic slaves’.
Does it sound like India?

美国人无法停止从沃尔玛商店购买廉价商品,贪婪本质上植根于资本主义的精神之中。
中国有经济特区,中国几千年来从未实行过自由市场经济。
中国唯一一次完全实行自由市场经济是在鸦片战争之后，显然，这对中国不利。
中国遵守相应的规则，这些规则是西方国家制定的，中国没有参入任何规则的制定，甚至中国的汽车工业几十年来都被西方国家压垮。
印度一直遵守规则，然而，它的经济是中国的1/5。
资本主义的本质是贪婪的，大多数西方国家习惯于：“ 让中国人像狗一样工作，为我们的高生活水平社会生产廉价的产品，我们会让他们永远保持愚蠢，他们的后代将继续是我们的经济奴隶。”
听起来是不是很像印度？

ngsw
4 hours 58 min ago
Trump will be busy fixing his Trump Tower and will have no time on trade war. Karma is punishing Trump.

特朗普将忙于修复他的特朗普大厦，没有时间打贸易战，业力在惩罚特朗普。
（译注：昨天的新闻，7日上午位于纽约曼哈顿第五大道上的特朗普大厦失火，造成1人死亡，Karma是印度人说的“业力”的意思，也即“因果报应”）

swami.vas
5 hours 11 min ago
Further to what I have opined in my earlier commentary, apart from the obvious adverse impact on the US economy as a result of the unwarranted pregnancy in the US administration with an intention to produce another baby of protectionism, there is also a strong possibility of a political fallout from the unwise economic moves initiated by the present administration. There seems to be already at work a strong lobby to impeach the present head and the unwise economic moves of the administration will only help strengthen the resolve of that lobby to accomplish their target in the not too distant future! The question that hangs in bold letters in the air is, will the already cracking and unstable current US administration be able to complete the remaining years of its constitutionally permitted four years, or will it slip and follow the path of a fallen previous administration? It is interesting to closely watch the Washington dilemma and melodrama, after having unwisely putting its head into the dragon mouth!

除了我在较早前的评论中所说，美国政府无理怀孕，意图制造另一个保护主义的婴儿，对美国经济造成明显的不利影响外，本届政府所采取的不明智的经济行动，亦极有可能在政治上产生影响。似乎已经有一个强大的游说团体在弹劾现任领导人，而政府在经济上的不明智举动只会增强该游说团体在不远的将来实现其目标的决心！摆在人们面前的一个大胆的问题是，已经崩溃且不稳定的现任美国政府能否完成宪法允许的四年任期，还是会重蹈前任政府的覆辙？在不明智地把它的头伸进龙口的时候，密切注视华盛顿进退两难的困境和情节剧是一件很有趣的事。